acoa sanctuary Community Group
The softer side of growing up in a dysfunctional home... a sanctuary to feel home with friends and never alone.
Years ago I worked for a church and school. I was in charge of the maintenance and custodial departments. Being in charge I had a very close working arrangement with the school principle as well as the church pastors.
The associate pastor was close to me in age and he knew my problems with church and we often talked about spiritual beliefs. He was one of the most opened minded religious people I ever met and we rarely talked religion.
Like I said he was the associate pastor. The head pastor did not care for our conversations and it was a wall between them. Then there was a third pastor. A pastor who served the church for over forty years.
He was given his own office and even in his late 80s he came to work everyday. He did not really do much but everyone treated him with the respect he earned through years of serving the Lord.
After he died, the associate pastor told me about his last conversation with him. Laying on his death bed he looked at the young pastor and started to cry and asked him if what they were doing was true. Were they really preaching about a life after death?
A few years before that I was an active member in another church. I was a lay reader and served on the church board of trustees.
There was a couple that came every Sunday with their two teenage children and seemed to be on top of the world. That is until the husband was diagnosed with lung cancer. He was a smoker and quit as soon as he found out he had cancer. That is⦠until he found out that he had six months to live⦠so he went back to smoking.
Why these two stories? Last night I heard a story which really makes me think about our last moments in this realm of existence.
As you know I am an alcoholic having been sober for 16 years. My dream is to die sober. Last night I learned that on his death bed Bill Wilson one of the founders of AA wanted three shots of whiskey.
Here was a man who fought his whole life to get sober and one of his last wishes was to have whiskey.
An alcoholic wanting a drink. A man with cancer wanting his smokes. A man of God questioning his beliefs.
I often wondered what those last seconds were like. I really thought it would answer all of my questions. Now I wonder if any question will be answered.
Just kind of rambling tonight. No real reason for this post⦠just trying to clear up the confusion in my own mind.
Thanks for listeningâ¦
The associate pastor was close to me in age and he knew my problems with church and we often talked about spiritual beliefs. He was one of the most opened minded religious people I ever met and we rarely talked religion.
Like I said he was the associate pastor. The head pastor did not care for our conversations and it was a wall between them. Then there was a third pastor. A pastor who served the church for over forty years.
He was given his own office and even in his late 80s he came to work everyday. He did not really do much but everyone treated him with the respect he earned through years of serving the Lord.
After he died, the associate pastor told me about his last conversation with him. Laying on his death bed he looked at the young pastor and started to cry and asked him if what they were doing was true. Were they really preaching about a life after death?
A few years before that I was an active member in another church. I was a lay reader and served on the church board of trustees.
There was a couple that came every Sunday with their two teenage children and seemed to be on top of the world. That is until the husband was diagnosed with lung cancer. He was a smoker and quit as soon as he found out he had cancer. That is⦠until he found out that he had six months to live⦠so he went back to smoking.
Why these two stories? Last night I heard a story which really makes me think about our last moments in this realm of existence.
As you know I am an alcoholic having been sober for 16 years. My dream is to die sober. Last night I learned that on his death bed Bill Wilson one of the founders of AA wanted three shots of whiskey.
Here was a man who fought his whole life to get sober and one of his last wishes was to have whiskey.
An alcoholic wanting a drink. A man with cancer wanting his smokes. A man of God questioning his beliefs.
I often wondered what those last seconds were like. I really thought it would answer all of my questions. Now I wonder if any question will be answered.
Just kind of rambling tonight. No real reason for this post⦠just trying to clear up the confusion in my own mind.
Thanks for listeningâ¦
Well it also doesn't like my own unique way of writing with three dots... lol
I have to say, Def. gives you something to think about ... And you couldn't have picked 3 better stories..
I currently have a friend that within the last 2 years, has had open heart surgery, had to go back to work ASAP because his wife did not work (She's Always been sickly, Pill Addict) Both STILL Smoke cigs, like No Tomorrow... I have a Hard time keeping my mouth shut when he sits and complains about his health...I know it is NON of my business, so I have to leave the room when he is around....
I think the One that Shocked me the most is the preacher of course, I guess in my mind, I figure "they" of all people would have it all figured out :) Or at least that is what i would like to think...I guess that is when I have to accept "They are Human Too"...
thanks Again for this, give me more to think on, and helping me get back to being comfy in my "New" home...
Love You Guys... ALL OF YA...
Love & Prayers
1ness :^)
I think we have learned or developed bad habits and addictions to help us cope through the rough times. So i guess it doesnt surprise me to hear Bill W wanted a drink in the last of his days. We are all human and it is one day at a time right?
I think the key for all of us, is to appreciate what we have when we have it...and let the future hold what ever the future holds.
As for you worrying about not dying sober...Well i think you will have your new family hear all being codependant and protecting you :) Not a chance are we gonna let our messenger go out anything but sober...
For more than 20 years, I relied on and believed what was preached about death and eternity (either spent in heaven or hell) from a pulpit. During that time, I too have seen many people of seemingly unshakable faith (including pastors and their families) surrender to uncertainty when they faced crisis or tragedy in their lives. It brought me to a place in my own life when I asked lots of questions and received no satisfying answers. I struggled to reconcile the concept of god's love with the message of condemnation and judgment that accompanied the teachings.
Over the past five years I have "redesigned" my higher power. I am intrigued with people's accounts of near-death experiences or the notion that there is a spiritual realm around me that I cannot see. I am now learning about the different afterlife concepts of various religious philosophies without judgment or preference for either of them. I do believe that my soul will move on after my earthly body has outlived its usefulness. I have no clue how that transition will happen, but I am convinced there is a process to it.
Meantime, it brings me comfort to know that even though god is known by many names and traditions, this same higher power is within and around each one of us, accessible to anyone, anywhere, anytime. There is a connectedness, a collective consciousness and the love expressed through its unity can affect change. Just look at us here ;-) What a wonderful expression of that Love.
Even though I recognize that I will never have all the answers, especially as it relates to the afterlife, I have come to appreciate the journey and am grateful that we can freely have these discussions. I learn so much along the way from all of you and as I contemplate your insights, I gain new perspective.
Thanks for letting me share.
Recently, I read a book by a Canadian author, a physician who works with downtown/skid road drug addicts. Many are further afflicted by HIV and Hep C. A great read. Speaks to the causations of addiction, whether alcohol, drugs, gambling, work, sex etc. Some of it is complex, but in simplistic terms, involves physiology, maternal stresses during gestation, after birth, and our own early development stages (impacted by stress/trauma/unmet needs) etc, etc. And, at the heart of the matter (again, I simplify), we all try to fill the void, the emptiness of our childhoods. Does this void ever leave? I don't think so. It is just "managed" (through a variety of means/methods) and of course, with other positive factors in ones life, it becomes easier to "manage." At death, I would imagine that uncertainty and fear would stimulate the void? If the substance brought relief in past, it may be natural? Dunno, just speculating.
My pastor once said that it is natural to have doubts. We wouldn't be human if we didn't doubt. Right now, I am reading a book titlle "Fingerprints of God - The Search for the Science of Spirituality" quite interesting in many ways. Delves into research into the brain, reactions to spiritual activities, as well, life after death research etc. I used to read much on this subject about 20 years ago, and, in a faith that involved reincarnation.
(Sometimes, I think too big picture, other times, too simplistically - and I remember from a Science class that "energy" does not cease to exist. I am filled with energy, non? So what don't the scientists get about afterlife? Is it just "where" we go that is the problem?
I've had many "experiences" that cannot be defined by logic - what I would define as "moments with God" or "interventions" of sorts. While I attend church, and, have deepened my faith - I am still unlike many there in much of my viewpoints, which I refrain from sharing - and would have to align my thoughts similarly to Samadi's. There may be one Creator, but many ways of getting there - so "doubt" for many of us may come into play with regards to chosen "religions." Many faiths teach "love" or "light" at the heart of the matter. I have no doubt about a HP, about the love, the light. One cannot forget an embrace by God. Now who's rambling, lol.
I wonder if when my time comes I will come to realize and have the desire to make up for some perceived loss. I guess the only way to get around that is to take a good look at my life and live it the best I can pursuing what holds meaning and value for me.
Been reflecting on those stories you shared and here is what jumps out at me: People not ready to go, faced with the knowledge the end is inevitable. And why should anyone be surprised if they abandon all reason and convictions. Maybe it was a last act of defiance, in god's face sort of. Or maybe it was a personal statement of lives lived untrue to themselves out of religious obligation.
About Bill W., the fact he wanted to go out with whiskey does not take away one bit from the honorable ways in which he helped so many. He will always be remembered for how he lived - in service and giving hope to those who previously had none.
My drug of choice (i know this may seem humorous to some) is chocolate. And even if I don't have any until the day I die, nothing sounds more delicious than to go out with some German Lindor Truffles melting on my tongue. Or wait... maybe it would be more satisfying to pass on in the presence of a loved one, not to be alone. So much to be considered when I think of what it may be like. I do know this: I may not have certainty about how those last moments will play out for me, but I know that from here on out I want to live a life without regrets.
Dave, your dream is to die sober. And I have complete confidence that you will live your dream. And then some. And even more so, my friend, I know that you will leave a legacy of hope to your recovery friends and loved ones. Every book you write, every time you share in meetings or on boards, every note of encouragement and understanding you send, they all leave their mark on the souls of the recipient. That is what matters in the end, a life lived with meaning and conviction.
You do have a way with words.... wow... and thank you.
Even if Bill W did have that last drink, in no way did it take away from all the good he did (or tried to do)... it just kind of makes me wonder how strong a spiritual life a person can have at those last moments....
Anyway... truffles... *tongue touching the floor* .... awhile back I had my first ever mint truffle... and wow was I hooked.... I have never tasted anything sooooooooooo sinfully delicious.... yup.... I actually had one last in my apartment for three days !!! They are usually gone as fast as I get them....
i figured it out--i am not angry at the past anymore-the hate is gone, i just vented it out, i guess---like it is useless----i sort of made my peace with me and myself----hating my perp keeps the focus of me and my solution----helping others and relating to them , those in my situations has more meaning---it keeps the focus on me
but getting back to my anger and doubt and maybe de-conversion from believer to non believer it is the *continued" unfairness , hardship in my life that has me angry and on the verge of just deconversion from any god, hp, diety or whatever and realizing based on evidence seen that i have to b my own god---that is scary b/c a lot of times i am powerless----not enough---
i am doing a lot of questioning lately---a lot----and no answers in sight-----
just voicing my thoughts , whats been goin on w/me lately
At the time I was big into learning about Buddhism and he really liked the practice of it and the philosophy of it. The one thing he disagreed with was the idea of suffering was an illusion. He thought it was quite real.
He went on to say that to truly find our HP we need to go through the suffering, to truly embrace and feel it all only then will we see our HP up close and personal. He kind of laughed and said, just look at the Christian Church they have a symbol of torture and pain as its main instrument. That Jesus endured so much pain and suffering before he finally was at peace with His HP... meant so much... yet many folks still try to avoid suffering and think they can go around it and then find there HP.
It was a very interesting thought and something I never looked at like that... I'm not saying I agree with it, nor that I disagree with it.... but what I find interesting is that every spiritual or religious belief share a common theme... one is a hope for a better tomorrow... whether in this world or the next... and the other thing is suffering and how we deal with it...
I think when one has not completely accepted the truth of the matter then doubts will creep in but if one embraces with full conviction and honesty that there is nothing else but this that faith ultimately prevails. There was a member in AA who was quite keen on being buried with his favourite bottle of scotch and kept on telling that to all and sundry for years however one day he suddenly started saying that his bottle of scotch be given to some one deserving and he be buried clean and sober which was what ultimately that happened. Even my brother kept insisting for a long time that his favorite poison Vodka be poured over his body before cremation as that is how he wanted to go until he too suddenly one day said he was just joking and wanted to go to his creator clean and sober.