I have some hot topics:

1. Is there such a thing as a "Real Alcoholic"?

2. Is there such a thing as a "Recovered Alcoholic"?

3. Should only those who had a "Spiritual Awakening as the result of these steps" carry the message?

Duck - Before the $hit hits the fan!!!

#1) Sure the "real alcoholics" are the pompous ones who feel that their exact path to recovery is the only way. and if that's not arrogant enough for you, if someone;s path varies a little and they still succeed these folks will say "Well they weren't real alcoholics to begin with!"
2) I use the term recovering to indicate the on-going process but each to their own
3) If you know how to stay sober, carry the message, if you don't figure it out first.

Remember Nicky, you asked for this. LOL

Thanks guys LOL

Will add my two cents worth to the discussion in due course!

#1: The way I used IS the only way - for me.
#2: Depends on whether they have been buried twice or not.
#3: Only if they used the only way - for them. See #1. Someone with a weeks sobriety has something to give - both the first timer and the old hand. We just need to keep the cotton out of our ears...

is take it outside another group BBH?

http://www.dailystrength.org/groups/rum-forged-ramblings

1-yes
2-yes
3-yes

1. Is there such a thing as a "Real Alcoholic"?
Yes, I think it a person who has a hopeless state of mind and body as regards alcohol. There are hard drinkers, serious drinkers even wher alcoholc does have a negative effect on a person'f life, but they're not fully blown alcoholics.

2. Is there such a thing as a "Recovered Alcoholic"?
I waxed and wained on this for years. I thought then that it was dangerous to call myself recovered and tha it would make me complacent. But no, now I call myself a recovered alcoholic - relieved of being in a "hopeless state of mind and body" as regards alcohol. I never crave it and as long as I do my daily program, I don't believe I will. This perspective comes from a person who has life threatening mental illness, which is a far greater threat to my life than alcohol. I can see starkly the difference between being a "recovered alcoholic" and living the daily struggle of mental illnesses.

3. Should only those who had a "Spiritual Awakening as the result of these steps" carry the message?
Well, we do say, "You can;t give away what you haven;t got", but when I got sober and I continue to see this in AA, the idea of being 12 years sober was so ridiculous and for me to contemplate that I stuck with people who were 6 months sober as we were so much closer to the last drink than people with years up. But the Spiritual Awakening , according to the 12 Steps, is in the 12th Step and comes as a result of all the Steps before. But again, I had a spiritual awakening much earlier in the Steps. Having crapped on, on this point, I don;t really know the annswer.

Wendy, with regards to point 3 I think I would say that there is a difference between carrying "A" mesage and carrying "THE" message.

eg. Someone who is 1 day sober can carry "A" message about being one day sober to someone who is still drinking.

Only someone who had the experience of taking the 12 steps and having a spiritual awakening as the result can carry "THE" message. As you say on the basis of the fact that we cannot transmit something we haven't got.,

Yes, Nicky, I think that is a clearer way of saying it!! lol

BB, where you said, I will never be white as snow nor will I ever live this perfectly so therefore I can always admit to "having the right to be wrong" just like the group when carrying ITS message and not THE message." I think that is a very good message. In therapy I am often told I am a perfectionist and I get quite rankled, ironically proving that I am a perfectionist"!! LOL My perfectionsim often surrounds how well I communicate with other people, I am obsessed with getting everything word perfect, factual, the right inflection, be it online or in person.

I really operate better when in the fewer times I am "having the right to be wrong". It's an ego thing I think, and maybe coming from an abusive upbringing it's in part about getting everything as correct as possible so a slap or harsh words or screaming or enforced isolation won't come my way. But I think what you said about having the right to be wrtong is incredibly freeing once it is embraced. I mean, I'm not Jesus or Buddha, even though I may think so sometimes. No human is perfect and struggling against that truth and that tide is fruitless and very tiring.

The great thing about "this" message, as referred to in step 12, is that it has human imperfection built into it. There is no claim of perfection and the process for dealing with our shortcomings or "mistakes" is explicitly within it.

I have a question or two or mabey three. My first question is I'm a new mewhat happend to step 1mber and I don't know where to start, do I tell my story or just sit in where I fit in? Did I totally miss step 1 do I need to buy a book to keep up help help help.....

No Im sure Many a Beginners meeting In your area F2 face much easier dialogue To understand!! Here all, Ok then, this is what I think ..My opinion included:) So happy I got The less fanciful AA in the Day!! Oh One of My Sponsors was from Galveston!
Billy

Food for thought.We're all aware of the hurdles that come with learning a new way of living, But does it come through in our daily lives. Do we still allow our children to play unattended. Do we bother to tell our sposes how much they rreally mean to us. Have we gone out of our way to avoid those people that we know are likely to pull us back into the disease.The book tells that we must have a complete physic change or our actions are just superficial.in order to change the way we think it's imperative that we change thethings we do. that means we have to make a consious effort to change those habits we have spent years developing. in other words our defects of character. The habits we have developed over the years that seem perfectly normal to us but have been detrimental to us and we diidn't even know it. It's all those little things that we consider ours. Getting that attitude that "thats just me". Thats who I am.So basically what we;re doing is holding on to that pert of our lives that were just not willing to part with. Some part of our past lives that we consider we have control over. A complete physic change means we can look back at our character defects and recognize them for what they are. Our character defects and our short comings are the things we will work on for the rest of our lives. What we see about ourselves in our early sobriety those glaring defects that we know need immediate attention.Those are the easy defects defects to fix. the ones that are the hardest are the ones we can't see until we have had a spiritual awakening or physic change that brings those defects into the light.When we work step 9 isn't it ironic that we expect others to accept our defects and our apologetic measures when in all reality we have skipped over those important 6 & 7 th stepsand forgiven ourselves for those defects that got us here in the first place. We work those steps throughout our sobriety because they can only be revealed if we humbly ask and become entirely ready. Don't forget the impotance of cleaning our own house before we begin to ask forgiveness and and move on to steps that make us feel good and don't require us to look at ourselves. That was pretty long winded. You guys go out and make it the best day possible. Be grateful for the gift that was so freely given to you.