aa Spoken Here Community Group
Fellowship Where you can share your thoughts, feelings, stories and get support to gain and continue sobriety.
My sponsor (serenity94) and I are doing a workshop next Saturday on 12th stepping, arranged by our local intergroup.
Am interested to hear what other peoples thoughts on 12th stepping are - what is the purpose of it? How do you do it? What information would you think it is important to give people who are hearing about 12th stepping for the 1st time and are considering becoming involved in doing it? If you dont know much about it what questions would you like answered?
We have done a lot of 12th stepping and also quite a few workshops on it so am interested in anything that might give a fresh perspective to the one we do next week.
Many Thanks
Am interested to hear what other peoples thoughts on 12th stepping are - what is the purpose of it? How do you do it? What information would you think it is important to give people who are hearing about 12th stepping for the 1st time and are considering becoming involved in doing it? If you dont know much about it what questions would you like answered?
We have done a lot of 12th stepping and also quite a few workshops on it so am interested in anything that might give a fresh perspective to the one we do next week.
Many Thanks
What is the purpose of it?:
The opportunity to carry a message of hope and a new way out of misery for the suffering alcoholic. The visit is primarily is to help the caller to identify which type of alcohol problem she has by the definitions we use from the Big Book, Alcoholics Anonymous and our own experience, and to offer the practical help and hope for a spiritual solution to her problems.
How do you do it?:
I do not make 12th Step calls to people who are very drunk, it is a waste of time all round. Instead, if there is a relative or someone close to the alcoholic to speak with, I try to establish some background on the problem and ask them to encourage the alcoholic to call me directly again once she has sobered up enough to communicate. It is important to know whether or not it is the alcoholic herself who wants us to visit. I do not visit those who do not want the call, no matter how much the family may wish it.
I always take one other recovered alcoholic with me on the visit and leave details of where we have gone and what time we left with my sponsor or some other AA. I conduct the visit in accordance with Chapter 7 in the Big Book. I take a meeting list and leave our contact names and numbers with the alcoholic. If the alcoholic is alone and has no transport, we usually offer to come back and pick up the alcoholic for their first meeting if they want to attend.
People hearing about 12th Stepping for the first time:
I tell them I encourage my sponsees to come with me on these calls even if they have not quite completed their journey through the programme. They can just be there to learn as an observer.
If they are newly recovered I encourage them to help in carrying the message. It strengthens their - and my - own sobriety through active Step 12 work.
I tell would-be 12th Steppers about the amazing impact of meeting someone hopeless and despairing, then to see them transform into a healthy and recovered individual. I also explain that there are some who cannot be helped but it still helps us to do this work. I believe it is important for us to see a mirror image of our own untreated selves in those who still suffer. It is an opportunity to reinforce Step 1 and Step 2.
"He begged the doctor to tell him the whole truth, and he got it. In the doctor's judgment he was utterly hopeless; he could never regain his position in society and he would have to place himself under lock and key or hire a bodyguard if he expected to live long. That was a great physician's opinion.
...
The doctor said: "You have the mind of a chronic alcoholic. I have never seen one single case recover, where that state of mind existed to the extent that it does in you." Our friend felt as though the gates of hell had closed on him with a clang."
Inbetween those two quotes the book offers a glimmer of hope. That is the structure of the 12 stepping in the book - ie the first few chapters. Utter hoplessness, followed by a glimmer of hope if you accept spiritual help.
It is important that the prospect has the experience that he cannot do this himself off his own power and we facilitate this experience in our 12 step calls. Here is another passge from the book that is apropos:
" "Two of the members of Alcoholics Anonymous came to see me. They grinned, which I didn't like so much, and then asked me if I thought myself alcoholic and if I were really licked this time. I had to concede both propositions. They piled on me heaps of evidence to the effect that an alcoholic mentality, such as I had exhibited in Washington, was hopeless condition. They cited cases out of their own experience by the dozen. This process snuffed out the last flicker of conviction that I could do the job myself." "
We are also there to offer the truth and the truth seems to be that the prognosis for active alkies is death via insanity and alkies are generally living a complete delusion.
So, all in all, just like the book does, a 1
"He begged the doctor to tell him the whole truth, and he got it. In the doctor's judgment he was utterly hopeless; he could never regain his position in society and he would have to place himself under lock and key or hire a bodyguard if he expected to live long. That was a great physician's opinion.
...
The doctor said: "You have the mind of a chronic alcoholic. I have never seen one single case recover, where that state of mind existed to the extent that it does in you." Our friend felt as though the gates of hell had closed on him with a clang."
Inbetween those two quotes the book offers a glimmer of hope. That is the structure of the 12 stepping in the book - ie the first few chapters. Utter hoplessness, followed by a glimmer of hope if you accept spiritual help.
It is important that the prospect has the experience that he cannot do this himself off his own power and we facilitate this experience in our 12 step calls. Here is another passge from the book that is apropos:
" "Two of the members of Alcoholics Anonymous came to see me. They grinned, which I didn't like so much, and then asked me if I thought myself alcoholic and if I were really licked this time. I had to concede both propositions. They piled on me heaps of evidence to the effect that an alcoholic mentality, such as I had exhibited in Washington, was hopeless condition. They cited cases out of their own experience by the dozen. This process snuffed out the last flicker of conviction that I could do the job myself." "
We are also there to offer the truth and the truth seems to be that the prognosis for active alkies is death via insanity and alkies are generally living a complete delusion.
So, all in all, just like the book does, a 1
"He begged the doctor to tell him the whole truth, and he got it. In the doctor's judgment he was utterly hopeless; he could never regain his position in society and he would have to place himself under lock and key or hire a bodyguard if he expected to live long. That was a great physician's opinion.
...
The doctor said: "You have the mind of a chronic alcoholic. I have never seen one single case recover, where that state of mind existed to the extent that it does in you." Our friend felt as though the gates of hell had closed on him with a clang."
Inbetween those two quotes the book offers a glimmer of hope. That is the structure of the 12 stepping in the book - ie the first few chapters. Utter hoplessness, followed by a glimmer of hope if you accept spiritual help.
It is important that the prospect has the experience that he cannot do this himself off his own power and we facilitate this experience in our 12 step calls. Here is another passge from the book that is apropos:
" "Two of the members of Alcoholics Anonymous came to see me. They grinned, which I didn't like so much, and then asked me if I thought myself alcoholic and if I were really licked this time. I had to concede both propositions. They piled on me heaps of evidence to the effect that an alcoholic mentality, such as I had exhibited in Washington, was hopeless condition. They cited cases out of their own experience by the dozen. This process snuffed out the last flicker of conviction that I could do the job myself." "
We are also there to offer the truth and the truth seems to be that the prognosis for active alkies is death via insanity and alkies are generally living a complete delusion.
So, all in all, just like the book does, a 1
"He begged the doctor to tell him the whole truth, and he got it. In the doctor's judgment he was utterly hopeless; he could never regain his position in society and he would have to place himself under lock and key or hire a bodyguard if he expected to live long. That was a great physician's opinion.
...
The doctor said: "You have the mind of a chronic alcoholic. I have never seen one single case recover, where that state of mind existed to the extent that it does in you." Our friend felt as though the gates of hell had closed on him with a clang."
Inbetween those two quotes the book offers a glimmer of hope. That is the structure of the 12 stepping in the book - ie the first few chapters. Utter hoplessness, followed by a glimmer of hope if you accept spiritual help.
It is important that the prospect has the experience that he cannot do this himself off his own power and we facilitate this experience in our 12 step calls. Here is another passge from the book that is apropos:
" "Two of the members of Alcoholics Anonymous came to see me. They grinned, which I didn't like so much, and then asked me if I thought myself alcoholic and if I were really licked this time. I had to concede both propositions. They piled on me heaps of evidence to the effect that an alcoholic mentality, such as I had exhibited in Washington, was hopeless condition. They cited cases out of their own experience by the dozen. This process snuffed out the last flicker of conviction that I could do the job myself." "
We are also there to offer the truth and the truth seems to be that the prognosis for active alkies is death via insanity and alkies are generally living a complete delusion.
So, all in all, just like the book does, a 1
A friend of mine says "give them a killer case of alcoholism and then tell them there is a solution"
In it ,we read a lot about the "altrustic movement.".Altrustic meaning self less,concern for others...
In the Dr`s Opinion,it mentions several other "forms" of 12 stepping.
here are a few examples taken from the 1st edition,a long reply,but in this chapter,we see a theme of the 12th step,carring the message
In the course of his third treatment he acquired certain ideas concerning a possible means of recovery. 8As part of his rehabilitation he commenced to present his conceptions to other alcoholics, impressing upon them that they must do likewise with still others.
Though we work out our solution on the spiritual as well as an altruistic plane
About four years ago one of the leading contributors to this book came under our care in this hospital and while here he acquired some ideas which he put into practical application at once.
Later, he requested the privilege of being allowed to tell his story to other patients here and with some misgiving, we consented
The unselfishness of these men as we have come to know them, the entire absence of profit motive, and their community spirit, is indeed inspiring to one who has labored long and wearily in this alcoholic field.
If any feel that as psychiatrists directing a hospital for alcoholics we appear somewhat sentimental, let them stand with us a while on the firing line, see the tragedies, the despairing wives, the little children; let the solving of these problems become a part of their daily work, and even of their sleeping moments, and the most cynical will not wonder that we have accepted and encouraged this movement. We feel, after many years of experience, that we have found nothing which has contributed more to the rehabilitation of these men than the altruistic movement now growing up among them.
About one year prior to this experience a man was brought in to be treated for chronic alcoholism. He had but partially recovered from a gastric hemorrhage and seemed to be a case of pathological mental deterioration. He had lost everything worth while in life and was only living, one might say, to drink. He frankly admitted and believed that for him there was no hope. Following the elimination of alcohol, there was found to be no permanent brain injury. He accepted the plan outlined in this book. One year later he called to see me, and I experienced a very strange sensation. I knew the man by name, and partly recognized his features, but there all resemblance ended. From a trembling, despairing, nervous wreck, had emerged a man brimming over with self-reliance and contentment. I talked with him for some time, but was not able to bring myself to feel that I had known him before. To me he was a stranger, and so he left me.More than three years have now passed with no return to alcohol.
However, he did become "sold" on the ideas contained in this book. He has not had a drink for more than three years. I see him now and then and he is as fine a specimen of manhood as one could wish to meet.
I am responsible for the work. God is responsible for the results. I must detach from the outcome, good or bad.
Let Go Absolutely, p.242
After failure on my part to dry up any drunks, Dr. Silkworth
reminded me of Professor William James's observation that truly
transforming spiritual experiences are nearly always founded on
calamity and collapse.
"Stop preaching at them," Dr. Silkworth
said, "and give them the hard medical facts first.
This may soften them up at depth so that they will be willing to do anything to get well. Then they may accept those spiritual ideas of yours, and even a Higher Power."