Women who Love too Much Community Group

WHEN BEING IN LOVE, MEANS BEING IN PAIN... This group is to help women through the journey of realizing they can love themselves. To help realize that they are capable of having a happy, healthy, whole relationship and break the cycle of abuse and heartache from loving emotionally unavailable men.

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The emotionally unavailable man

i have only posted this about 5,000 times, but here it is 5,001 for anyone who has missed it:

Common behaviors of unavailable men
From the website: Mr. Unavailable and the fallback girl:


He is very reliant on text messages, instant messaging and email for the majority of his contact

He is ambiguous about the status of the relationship

You are not sure when you will hear from him next, even though you have been dating them for a while

You think you are in a relationship, but it is closer to a booty call

He says stuff like If only the timing was different, you would be the perfect girlfriend and If only things were different Id definitely marry you

When you try to tackle the status of your relationship or any issues, he either tells you what you want to hear or then returns to his normal behavior, or he just skirts the issue. One way or the other, you wind up back at square one.

He lives with his ex

He shares a bed with a woman that he claims is his friend

He admits is that he is dating multiple women continuously

He is not over his ex openly or he says He is over his ex but He is quietly still trying to cope with the end of the relationship

He mentions his ex or things that happened between the two of them frequently

He is an overt mother lover mummys boy, or He is a mother hater has an overtly negative
relationship with his mother

He has a girlfriend

He is married

He is recently separated or has been separated for a long time.

He has a long distance relationship

He does not call when He is supposed to. Ever.

He is one big walking excuse.

You feel empty after you sleep with him.

He creeps out after sleeping with you even though you have been together for a while

He has a stringent routine that he just will not deviate from, sometimes a sign that he has someone else

He will not take calls either before or after a certain time; often a sign that he is cheating, or that

He is afraid to admit that he is with you or any woman.

He does not come around to your place until late

He is resistant to involving himself in your life

He talks about his problems, his successes, his life it is me, me, me all the way

He determines the momentum of the relationship you meet up when he wants to meet up

He pushes is for an open relationship

He never refers to you as a girlfriend, partner, or any form of significant not other

He uses sex as his way of demonstrating his so called emotions

There are pockets of time when he seems to just disappear, and then he resurfaces with little or no explanation

It feels like he blows hot and cold

He is quick out the gate in pursuing you, gets your attention, and then goes into a slow cantor

He tells you that he has a lot of issues that he needs to deal with

He actually says not ready for a relationship but is still with you

He says he wants to get married, but there is no sign of a ring, no sign of a date, and years are going by

He can not commit to anything, no matter how miniscule everything that He is asked, such as whether he can do something with you is a big drama to get him to say yay or nay

He may try and sleep with you on the first night

You often feel like an armchair psychologist

He is so inconsistent, that He is become consistent at it and you now think it is normal

He does not feel any responsibility towards following through on plans he has made with you.

He will often have no respect for your time commitments and he will expect you to jump to his beat

He summons you and you run

It feels like a long distance relationship but you live in the same area/town/city

He has lots of female friends that are pursuing him. They are all catering to his needs. He gets to be jackofalltrades and master of no one. This is what one of my readers refers to as his Narcissistic Harem or Narcissistic Supply.

They tend to be quite tight fisted. They can spend a lot on themselves but will pennypinch with you.

When you ask about the status of the relationship or his behavior, he accuses you of being

Disproportionate interest and declaration of feelings at the outset of the relationship (lets move in, have a baby) and then he withdraws

You have been together for years but he is stalling on moving in or just plain moving the relationship forward.

You could be with him for a lifetime but you would struggle to see any progression in your relationship with him.

He is like a bad penny that keeps turning up. You end it with him but he finds a way to keep in contact with you periodically, or even sleep with you occasionally. This can go on for years.



thank you, Susy. Right now, every day is a struggle. Losing weight daily, trying to hold it together. It is one big mess that I am losing the will to extricate myself from. The struggle is feeling overwhelming. Thank you for reminding me of a few things. He'll be at the station again and I will struggle again and again and again. x

Sorry you are struggling so much.....can you explain what you mean about - he will be at the station again.
I suppose you are forced to meet him either on the way to work ...or at work?

Edith12...I'm sorry you are struggling but I understand!!! I'm definitely involved with this type of emotionally unavailable man. I recognize alot of these behaviors. I struggle with whether or not to continue to have a relationship with this man. We have been ..doing whatever it is we do.. for over a year. I've been in unhealthy relationships in the past and do NOT want to continue. I'm trying to get myself back on the track I was on prior to this man coming into my life. I wonder sometimes if I should let him know exactly what type of man he is. I know I have to let go and allow him to live his life the way he wants...but the woman who loves too much in me wants to try to get him to change....what an illusion!!!

Thank you lassie and kstorm,

I am having to see this man at the station. I love him and am affected by him like no other. I am trying to stay in control but it is nearly impossible. I am wondering if I can have him in my life on a controlled basis. This sounds ridiculous but he is the only one who can help me feel, sense life, smile, laugh, respond sexually. I am not doing very well right now. :(

Edith hugs to you,
you're still looking for your happiness externally, and within is the only place you will EVER find that.
He offers you an illusion only.
But you know all this already.
A controlled relationship? We have no control with these men, girl!
They control us, and they break us, murder our self esteem and character till we can't see any way out....
I am soooooo worried about you!!!
Dig deepest ever, girl, take back your life. You CAN have a good life without him, but it's a long tunnel to reach that light. When the option is staying in that black tunnel forever, you don't have a choice.
You can do it. Reach for the light, not reach for his dark heart, and soon you'll feel the sunshine
praying for you (and I'm not even religious, see what you've done to me, hehehe)
caz xoxo

Choose you Edith, choose you!!! He offers you nothing but obessive thoughts and heartache. Stay away from the poision if you can.

I wish you strength

Cazza, in tears reading kind post to me. your words 'you can have a good life without him' went straight through me. I am so very weak right now. very weak. There is contact every day. I am living in a very dangerous place.If anyone close to me knew what was happening there would be the most terrible storm that would result. I am so confused. He seems to be talking about things he never did the first time around. Constantly telling me he loves me, wants to spend the rest of his life with me, that I am everything he ever wanted.Says he didn't realise the first time (6 years ago) how much he loved me and now he does and wants me in his life.
I have not posted this before because it is terrible and a real risk as I may lose all your support. But I am in desperate state at the moment and only a breath away from collapsing, giving up and giving in to this terrible passion. He is married. He has been in and out of his house many times (in fact - he told me he is moving out in 3 months). This happened the first time - he moved out (not because of me) - we began a relationship. His wife found out and threatened no access to his children if he continued to see me. I told him to choose the children and not me. I was out of my marital home by then, spiralling into self-harm and out of control but I couldn't see him lose his kids. We were only just beginning and not sure what our future held - but it was cut short. He was chaotic then - is a little better now. More contactable, always loving, a little different but essentially quite wild - that is what I love.
We only ever bumped into each other over the years and it took me until last year to truly feel I was recovering. Cazza, when you say I can live a happy life without him, it has taken me a long time to hope that that is true.
This time last year he was regularly on my train. He told me things I didn't expect to hear. That he loved me, wished he had fought harder for me the first time. Those few months began to spiral out of control. My close family were away and I spent one night with him. I disintegrated as the days went on. Didn't eat. Had to lie and lie and lie to my family. The contact went on but he began the push and pull. One day it was too much. From acting and talking like he loved me he was very cold for 2 days. Cruel in his words. Distanced. I came onto this site and you all helped me to stay away. To see it was so very damaging.
These last few weeks he has been at the station again. Is now telling me he wants to spend his life with me, is moving out of home in 3 months (again - not to be with me - he has a very difficult relationship - it may be seperation or simply living in different houses) and that we will be one step nearer to having what we want? Today he said he is not willing to lose me. I cannot seem to let go. But the self-hatred is beginning to kick in all over again. I am not self-harming or drinking but cannot look at myself in the mirror. I don't know whether there is a future to be had with this man or not. It would be very chaotic but I cannot shift away from the idea that he is my "one" - it sounds ridiculous I know. I don't know whether this constant bumping into each other is a sign that we should be together or that I just have to keep fighting the longing to be with him.
My self-hatred is linked to the betrayal of people in my family who love me and need me - I am afraid to say any more.
I am in a terrible place right now and I thought I was recovering. I feel I am sinking and my resolve is getting less and less. I am so sorry to let everyone down so very much. I am 43, I should know and behave better but this man has touched me in a way I cannot explain and cannot seem to get over. Please think of me, help. Love Edith x

The reason I stress that his moving out of his marital home is 'not because of me' is because the first time I let myself believe we were going to be together. I left my marriage and home. I had never lived alone before and gave up everything. And the whole thing collapsed. Eventually, he went back home to his wife and children. This time, though he has told me he is moving out, I need to remind myself that this does not mean we will have a future. I cannot allow it to sway me in any of my decisions. He is moving out as his relationship with his wife has always been a difficult one and they sometimes do this - to ease tension? But I am sure he will still be 'within his family' - if he moves out it will not be an outward sign of his decision to be with me. I must not deceive myself on that one.
Why can I not do a basic thing like not contact/not talk/not connect. It feels impossible again - even for one day. It is a kind of madness that I did not expect to happen to me at this time of my life. Can feel myself sinking very low and fast and running out of strength - and it is all my fault.

I think I want to tell my story. It is not a good one but I need to tell the truth.

I came to his town about 12 years ago with my husband and two children. We came because of his job but this also needed me to act in a 'pastoral' role with him and it was horrendous for me - very high pressured and I was in a position I never felt comfortable in. But I did it. To support him and his dreams and because the people I involved with in this job/venture felt it was the right decision for us as a family.

Our marriage had never been an easy one. We married very young and I had been in love with someone else before we married. Really , I remained in love with this person (though never saw him while married) for another 5 years into my marriage. Why marry in the first place? My husband was my best friend, my rescuer, my security that I had never had as a child. He 'held me up' and I was very reliant on him. He was a man I knew would never leave me - ever. He loved me - adored me even. But I nearly callled the engagement off. I was never truly in love with him and though physically he was the best at satisfying me sexually with orgasm I rarely wanted to kiss him or truly connect in love making. I had never been like this before and so , essentially , my true sexuality shut down from the day of our marriage . We have been married for 21 years. ( I am so sorry to have to confess this - don't blame you all if you hate me)
But we were very very close - communicated very well and stood by each other through thick and thin. He was/is a very kind and angelic man. Caring, loving, giving. Everything a woman would want - but as a woman to a man- I have never felt 'right' or 'free". It has broken my heart that I can't respond naturally and a sorrow we have both suffered in our marriage.
5 years in he nearly left me. I don't blame him. Though by then we had a beautiful daughter, he knew he was not 'the one'. We were so close but he wanted more and there was another woman who would have been with him at the drop of a hat. He decided to stay. We tried to work it through - accept the empty parts and build on what we had. We worked hard in our community and served others . Loved others and found a way through.
We had sex (not often) but there has always been a huge part of me missing. I was a very passionate young woman (spanish blood!) and enjoyed previous relationships and was always loving and giving.But somehow, I couldn't give here to him . No matter how hard I tried. It has been heartbreaking for both of us.
When we moved to this town - having had lots of ups and downs but determined to make things work, it was tough. His job and my role in it affected me alot, I lost 2 father figures, was depressed in my 'role' and on anti-depressants. I joined a degree programme and that was great. However, I am an artist and my degree opened many areas I had left hidden for a long time. It became a Pandora's box year.

I had made friends with my x (well, now current disaster) and his wife at my daughter's school. I had noticed him as a handsome man but sensed danger. I had no attraction to him intially and continued to try and live well and be a good mum and wife. I had to travel on the same bus as him every day and slowly something - I didn't know what- began to build. This was about 10 years ago now. We didn't talk much at the beginning but it began to feel as if he was alot like me - and he sought me out sometimes to talk to - though not much.
I began to feel a growing attraction but told good friends to stay accountable and not fall into something. Especially as we were both married with children. As the years went by, it became harder and harder. There was a period of about 3 years when I fought this tooth and nail - nearly every day. I prayed, I struggled, he says I was like the 'ice queen' when I spoke to him. So determined was I to keep it under control.
One day I was at a party, it came out. We discovered we both felt the same and I hit the most horrendous roller-coaster ride. I spun completely out of control. Suddenly, this man unlocked a part of me that had been dormant for over a decade. I felt I had finally found the man I loved,it felt like soul -mates and looking at him was like looking at me. I feel headlong in love (well, I had loved him a long time)
I was completely open with my poor husband. I could never lie to him back then, we were so close in so many ways - just not as woman to man. It was the most terrible time as I tried to decide what to do. This man said he was waiting for me. He was out of his marital home at the time we got together but not divorced. His children are very important to him and this is a big part of a success in his difficult life.

I was completely out of control. My artwork was the only place I could put all of this and I continued with my degree gaining a first class honours. But I lost this man. I eventually left home - not to be with him definately - but because I could not stop seeing him and of course, it was breaking my husband's heart. I was very ill. Tried to commit suicide because of the guilt ( I had always worked so hard to be perfect), and self-harmed. I dissappeared emotionally from my children and it is a time I look back on with deep pain. I have been in therapy ever since.
I lost this man for some reasons i know and others I don't understand. When his wife found out, even though she was seeing someone else, she threatened to stop him seeing his children. I had a premonition this would happen and warned him, saying he must choose his children - he loves them so much. We split up, I continued in my flat , nearly died, took 6 years to recover. I moved back home after 6 months to try and save the marriage and keep the children secure. I used to sleep on the floor beside my marital bed because I could not bear to be touched. It was the most terrible time of both our lives and things were never the same again. I felt I had loved and lost my 'one'. That life would now only ever be a fallout from that but I must make the best of it.
Every now and then, my husband would think of leaving. Visited a prostitute once, I don't blame him. Nearly hooked up with another woman - again - I don't blame him. He knew I still loved this man and would never be able to respond to him in the way a woman does. We had sex but have never been able to give myself completelty, never intitiate and don't like to kiss him. ( I love to kiss my current X) But we hung in there and have experienced peace, a restoration of sorts and are the best of friends. I am also very reliant on him (though not as much as I was) emotionally and financially. I was brave and left once but I cannot imagine doing it alone again. He says he wants me to stay -despite our difficulties that we cannot seem to surmount.
This other man has come into my life all over again. You know the story of that recently . I keep it secret to keep everyone safe and unhurt. Apart from once last year - I am not sleeping with this man. I am aware that if I decide to see him properly I would have to leave. I am trying to hold on and not hurt anyone. But there are whole swathes of me that only he touches. We connect in a way I have not experienced in my marriage - despite my love for my husband. As you can imagine - I feel hateful.

I have to go now - don't feel obliged to read. I will post more of my story if that is ok. My husband will be back from work soon. I am trying to stay in control but I am deeply connected to this other man who has weaved a deep strain through my life.


your marriage sounds very much like mine, married young, good guy, but i shut off early on. the N in my life- the last time i saw him was 3weeks befor ei met my H. i first met him at 13, and he basically used me till i was 18. when he came back inot my life in may, he was so different. sober, making amends, he remembering every detail of our past and told me what he'd been thinking at the time, supposedly. that he loved me but didnt know how to be a boyfrined. that he'd been thinking of me for 20 years. ha. it took me over completely. ow, what to do about my marriage. i have never been able to be honest with him, like u have, because he suffers from depression and other things. i dont want to hurt him.

Gee Edith, what a tale.
I am trying to put myself directly into your shoes, and it seems to me that your husband is a good man, but because you have such low self esteem you can't relate to someone loving you just for YOU? So you self sabotage, self destruct, all those things...
Your X who is back in your life now, well, he is offering you the world - again. More words, but are there actions? Or just talk of what the actions are going to be? I think you know.
I dont blame you at all. If mine came back in my life, promising me all of that, I would find it most difficult, it not impossible to walk away also.... Mine makes it easy, he has disappeared, and thank heaven for that.
So I cant comment, except feel what you must be going through. You KNOW its going to go nowhere, you know others will hurt, and you KNOW you are harming your own being by carrying on with a relationshp you KNOW can only lead to endless pain. These men dont change.
How do you break free for good?
In this sort of scenario, the ONLY thing that comes to my mind is MOVE AWAY, with our husband. Start afresh, anywhere where this guy is NOT. I know it sounds like running away, but seriously will it ever resolve itself otherwise? He has you on a string, and everybody suffers.
Stop kicking yourself to death for giving in to him.... when they exert the charm, the love and affection and hope to our wounded children souls, of course we give in! Gee Edith, we are SO human and just want to be loved, and have such an EXTREME attraction to them, so when they are throwing all that effort our way, you'd have to be made of stone to resist. Most of us are luckily not under that amount of pressure.
But you are, and something's got to give or you'll go insane with this. You need to move!
If you were to move with your family elsewhere, at least then you could settle into some sort of normal family life...and if after a time you truly felt your marriage wasnt what you wished for, at least you could make the decision to end it with some clarity, without the issue being clouded by the fairytale "romance" you have with this other man, which is more likely just more magical illusion than reality, as you well know...
I can so FEEL your desperation' it doesnt sound like he is going to ease off and let you go, and thats why I feel you have to GO. It's pain, but the end result of all this is going to be excrutiating for you, and those who love you. Get out while you can, Edith. Dont do it for others though; do it for YOU. The rest will follow.
Hugs, best wishes
Caz xox

Hey Edith,

I can't speak for anyone else, but I am certainly no here to judge you or what is going on in your life.

This situation sounds extremely complicated. Obviously the issues in your marriage were there from the beginning and have nothing to do with Mr. Train Station.

I can relate to part of your story. I was engaged and lived with a guy for 8 years who was a treasure. He was a wonderful man, very successful, very kind, he treated me like a queen. Constant flowers on my desk at work, beautiful jewelry. Our relationship was very passionate at the beginning but then it died down, and we grew more and more distant sexually. At the end we were almost like roommates. It was hard to end because he was such a good man. We parted as friends and remain friends to this day. I guess the difference is that I was never financially dependent on him nor did we have children.

What kind of counseling have you and your husband had regarding the emotional barrier that you guys have between you? It may be that this marriage is not right for you (no matter how great of a guy he is) and you need to work through that w/o the influance of triangulation (a 3rd party involvement).

It also sounds like your husband is in the ministry which if he has a public postion and you are supposed to be 'the faithful church wife' as an examle to the community which causes further issues and worries. Would a divorce affect his positon or standing in the community, etc. Sounds like there is a lot of complicated 'impression management' issues going on in this story as well.

So this is a higly complicated situation. Mainly, it sounds like you are not being true to your self, but feel like you 'have' to be a good wife. In essence, it sounds like you have been extremely emotionally unavailable to your husband for the majority of your marriage.

I hope you can work through all of this w/o the complication of another man, which will just keep you in cycle of guilt and self blame. If you have been married for 21 years then I assume your children are grown or almost grown where the impact would be less then if they were small.

It is not written anywhere that you have to stay in a marriage that is emotionally and sexually dissatisfying just because he is a good man. However keep in mind that is may also be an act of self destruction if you leave a good man and then go into a pattern of selecting emotionally unavailable man as a way of punishing yourself. Good luck Edith, like most of life this is not simple or black and white.

edith..First let me say I don't think anyone here would hate you! EVeryone here is here for a reason either we have done things or we have let things be done to us. So please don't feel anyone here is judging you!! In my opinion and as far as I am concerned you can feel safe here!!! This has been a long hard road for you. Sometimes the connection we feel with someone comes from a place that isn't really love at all. We've been caught up in this drama driven life for so long that the intensity we feel with a person..well we equvilate that to love. I thought my last husband was the one...charming, financially secure, good looking, funny, sex was great...all those things....but what we experienced wasn't love. I realize that now!!
Do you have the daily mediations book by Robin Norwood? It's called Daily meditations for Women who love too much. I've carried that book around with me for 3 yrs...I refer to it offend...it may help you!!
I'll be praying and thinking of you!!

Thank you all so much for replying to my very long post. I felt so supported, understood and stood by. I was so very afraid that I would lose your support - the guilt and shame I have felt over this is long term , and of course, so much worse when there is contact.

I am feeling so very tired of all of this. Yes , it has been a long hard road and in many ways, so has my marriage. I have had to resist alot of natural attractions to men and tried to stay on the 'straight and narrow'. But of course, a bit part of me has gone missing and this other man literally pulled me back into myself. The harrowing thing, quite apart from the damage it caused my family, was that this man was not wholly available and as my post suggests - abandons and goes back on promises.

He has done alot lately to make me believe things are different but I'm not so sure. And I am not sure what being true to myself means anymore. So much has been pushed down and I have learned to live with the sorrow of not being able to properly respond physically/connect with my husband for years. We are the very best of friends, I love him dearly, but it is as to a brother. I struggle with responding as a woman would to a man. The normal stuff - kissing, looking into each other's eyes, putting your arms around him. It has been a tragic strain throughout. Though I have always been there for him , to support, listen, talk, encourage, I have never been able to truly 'relax' into him. Always felt 'twitchy' - if that makes sense.

Cazza, you are right, I cannot go on like this. It will happen again and again. We are thinking of moving quite soon. Thank you for your support - I beat myself up every hour but you are right - it is nearly impossible to resist - he has been so loving and it is extremely intense.
Kstorm - thank you, I will get the book. thank you for thinking of me. x

edith, i am the same way with my husband. i have to resist the physical urge to push him away. i just ended an EA with the man from my past who awakened something in me, and now i have to figure out if my marriage can be saved. it looks 'perfect' on the outside, we have kids ages 10 and 13, a community, i even find him attractive. but he loves me so much, the way he looks at me with puppy eyes and his sensitivity makes me cringe. i dont think its fair to him.
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