Lupus Support Group

Lupus is an auto-immune disease in which the immune system cannot distinguish between threats (like viruses and bacteria), and healthy cells and tissue. As a result, the body produces antibodies that inflict cell damage, most commonly targeting joints, skin, kidneys and the nervous system. Join the group and find support for coping with lupus.

0 Online
0 Online

Probiotics and the immune system

I just had an "aha" moment. Sometimes it takes me a while to catch on!! lol
I have taking a probiotic for about 6 weeks to help with IBS-D. It seems to work. However,
I think a probiotic boosts the immune system and now I am wondering if I should continue taking it.
Anyone have any ideas on this?
I hope everyone has a blessed and healthy day.

Replies

deleted_user
deleted_user

I thought probiotics simply mixed good bacteria in with the bad bacteria in your digestive system to keep it more balanced. Hmmm, I will have to do more research on this. Thanks for bringing it up.

peace and love ... Kyle Anne
earthwalker
earthwalker

I'm with Kyle-Anne on this one, as far as I know the probiotics are just a digestive aid rather than an immune booster. Maybe the marketing spiel could give the impression they are a cure-all. I too will research..don't take them myself but do eat yoghurt regularly. Love, Light and Peace
deleted_user
deleted_user

Probiotics feed the good bacteria, it does not boost the immune system. Also if your digestive problems get worse you can double up or more on your dose. I was taking probiotics and not feeling any better until a health food store worker told me to take 3 or 4 at a time for a few days. I swear I went home and took four and it was the first time in years I was able to lay on my stomach without pain.
deleted_user
deleted_user

Anything that boosts the immune system lupus patients shouldn't take. However, I'm going to have to agree with the previous comments. We do need those probiotics to balance out the good and bad bacteria in our systems. I suggest that you discuss this with your doctor and see what he/she recommends.
mechellebelle
mechellebelle

I take probiotics every day in the pearl form. I haven't noticed anything but positive things. I wouldn't say that it increases antibodies (and pain) for me, just that it helped my ulcers and sensitive stomach so very much. I dont' know where Id' be with out them!

I've been on them for several years now and can tell when I forget to take them for a few days b/c my stomach will get upset.
deleted_user
deleted_user

I agree with everyone. No need to worry as pro-biotics do not boost the immune system. What you have to be careful of is echinacea, goldenseal, certain herbs and supplements that boost the immune system. Pro-biotics are actually wonderful for your system so keep taking them!
Melissa
deleted_user
deleted_user

I've read that most auto-immune disorders might be caused by prolonged inflammation in the gut..caused by stress, medication and eating junk food, etc. If you are taking immunosuppressants, or have taken antibiotics then it is a must to take probiotics to restore the natural balance in your stomach. In fact if you've had acid reflux or heartburn this could be a sign of the imbalance as well.
I've been taking probiotics for mys stomach for about a year now, just make sure you don't get it from commercial yogurts in the supermarket like the one Dannon or Activia makes..i think they use a strain of bacteria that is not good for people with auto-immune. Get the ones offered by healthfood stores or Garden of life. For more info about this..get a book Maker's Diet by Jordan Rubin.
deleted_user
deleted_user

Yes... probiotics are good for autoimmune disorders. I got on here because of a friend with lupus and hives. She has been taking Qivana probiotics for a week and hives are gone.

Here is info: http://bit.ly/BvBRW

While I'm sure there are other good probiotics, I got her the Qivana ones (I take them as well), because I was impressed with how they are manufactured. See, stomach acid will kill off most of the probiotics in your stomach and upper digestive tract, but the Qivana ones are designed not to dissolve completely until they get to the lower digestive tract.

Probiotics AND stomach enzymes are good to take. 80% of your immune system happens in the gut. Autoimmune disorders are not caused by TOO strong an immune system... just one that is "out of wack."

I've read evidence that a combination of probiotics and stomach enzymes can even help you lose weight, without changing your diet at all... just because you will process food more efficiently.

I've only been taking them for a couple of weeks... but I'll let you know if I see a weight difference. One of my friends lost 15 pounds in 2 months and they felt it was from the probiotics and enzymes... I'm hoping they are right and it works for me as well.
deleted_user
deleted_user

It would appear to me that Qivana Sue is on DS to push her product, not to offer advice.
I don't think anyone with any type of auto immune disease should try something that its supposed to be a "cure-all" without talking to their doctor.
I looked up the website and its nothing but a MLM company trying to recruit people to sell their product.
Makes one stop and think........
deleted_user
deleted_user

Not necessarily trying to "push" anything, as I said, there are many sources for probiotics, but, yes, I went with the Qivana line because I did a lot of research and was impressed with their patented triple delivery system and the fact that Dr. Marcus Laux (author of "Natural Woman, Natural Menopause" and "User's Guide to the Top 10 Natural Therapies") is on their advisory board. Google Dr. Laux and you'll see why I was impressed.

Also, since I knew I was going to stay on these probiotics (since they were the only thing I had tried that worked), I signed up as an IBO because, as one, I get a lower price for the product and can make commission if one of my friends starts using them (I have 4 with health conditions that could potentially be helped with probiotics, in fact the one with LUPUS had just had her Doctor recommend she start taking them).

I recommend things I use and believe in anyway (don't you tell people about movies you like, stuff you have tried that works?) and the "break even" point is about 4-5 referrals. If I can use them myself without them actually costing me anything because of referral commissions, that's a "win-win" in my book.

The evidence for probiotics in boosting your immune system and aiding digestion is there. Just Google "probiotics, immune system, digestion, auto-immune" and you'll find lots of papers written by medical professionals describing the research that has taken place the last few years.

So the question then becomes... if I'm going to be taking probiotics... are all probiotics created equal?

Unfortunately, no.

On the quality side, it doesn't matter how much probiotics are in a supplement (or yogurt) when manufactured, what matters is what gets to the GI tract. About 80% of the probiotics in yogurt are killed by stomach acid before they reach the GI tract.

With supplements, according to two studies... ConsumerLabs.com and DataMonitor the quality of off the shelf products is spotty, at best. ConsumerLabs found that 8 of 13 probiotic supplements met their quality standards while a Datamonitor study found that of 55 products evaluated, 40% had undetectable amounts of probiotics and 47% of the bacterial identities were mislabeled.

This is pretty common, other studies have shown that off the shelf supplements typically have pretty low absorption rates, you are probably already aware of this.

The manufacturing process and delivery system, absorption rate, etc., is very important. If you spend $10 for something that is only 20% effective, and $30 for something that is 80-90% effective, which is cheaper in the end?

The manufacturing process, quality and delivery system for the Qivana products is very good... do you own research and you'll find out.

The other thing I liked about the Qivana 3-part system is that you are also getting a blend of herbs (crown herb, chinese skullcap and white korean ginseng) that work together to reduce stress, effect hormone levels and boost immunity. Google "adaptogens to learn more." AND you are getting a free detox every 3 months.

All three of these products work together and all have solid science, and quality manufacturing, behind them.

Again though... no one is twisting anyone's arm here... you must do your own research and come to your own conclusions, as I did. That is what these forums are for and I hope I contributed some useful knowledge.

But do try to keep an open mind. I don't think how a product is sold... whether it's by CVS, Walgreens or an MLM, should matter. By the way, the founder and CEO of Qivana, Derek Hall, used to be President of Nature's Way and, before that, Chief Sales Officer of McKesson, so he had plenty of experience selling with the "off the shelf" model yet chose to launch this company using a direct sales platform.

But how a product is sold (store, internet, direct sales, catalog), should not matter. What should matter is... is it good quality and does it help you? Another thought though... I wonder what would happen if I asked CVS or Walgreens if they will give me free products if I refer enough other customers to them?
deleted_user
deleted_user

Why don't you do a bit more research? Do you actually have an auto immune disease? If probiotics don't boost the immune system then that is great, however, that's the last thing a lupus patient needs. Our immune systems are already out of whack.
Read what other people on here have been through and try to realize that they are all hurting at times and frustrated.
One product is not the answer. Don't you think we would all be on the band wagon to try it?
To everyone who resonded to my original post....thanks for the info about what probiotics really are. I'm still taking them and they have helped my IBS-D (that's the reason I started).
Sue, please don't try to persuade people to try something that might not work. Recommending a movie or a book doesn't affect someone's health. Come on, now...............
deleted_user
deleted_user

Hi Virginia,
Im so glad that the pro-biotics you are taking are helping your IBS. I have started taking them regularly myself because I hear that with a suppressed immune system it can help ward off germs/viruses but NOT by boosting the immune system. Just helping to kill the bacteria by all the good bacteria it puts back into our systems. The product that Sue is talking about which has MORE then just pro-biotics in it would be toxic for us since it boosts the immune system. So, you are helping your body in more ways then just for the IBS. During this swine flu season and since we are limited in what we can take supplement wise, it may be wise for all of us to start taking a good pro-biotic supplement. It does need to be a good quality refrigerated one.

Sue, if you do in fact have Lupus then taking your pro=biotic with the immune boosting supplements is not a smart thing to take. It contradicts what we are suppose to do which is NOT boost our immune systems. With all your knowlege on these supplements you sell, I would think you should know this already. No one here should be taking anything that boosts our immune systems nor should it be recommended. It can trigger flare ups and make us very sick. Been there, done that. New people who are not aware of this need to know the MEDICAL facts. You should not be recommending a product that could be harmful and not helpful to people. Thats great that it helps you. But, immune boosting supplements is the last thing a newbie should be considering taking. The info you are giving out is not correct for a group like this. If a new person here contacted you to buy your products and you had not posted about the immune boosting supplements as a "Plus" for them, they would have no idea that this particular product could make them SICKER. This irritates me because I was convinced by someone (a seller) that a "miracle" product called OPC-3 would help me and my auto-immune diseases (specifically stating it is is wonder drug for lupus). Only after becoming extremely sick from it after 5 days did I realize that the main ingredient is GRAPESEED extract which boosts the immune system which is why I got so sick from it. Not only did I waste 40.00 dollars on it, I made myself sicker then I already was. Please be aware of what you recommend to others. You may be trying to be helpful but you need to know the medical facts about what you are recommending to people with disease's. Virginia ann is right. Recommending a book or movie is completely different then suggesting something that can cause serious negative health consequences to people who arent as knowlegable about the "do's and donts" of lupus. Not trying to bash you or start a cyber fight, but I have made myself very sick from taking stuff that I was told was safe for me by people who clearly did not know what they were talking about. Now you know that your product with the added Immune boosting supplements is NOT good for Lupus patients.

As for the
deleted_user
deleted_user

LuvMyAnimals... I appreciate your concern, you are correct in that people need to be very careful to do the right research before they jump on something. I always research things carefully myself.

However, to address your concerns, the herbs in the Qivana formula are considered adaptogens... not immunostimulants, Google "adaptogen" to learn more.

That aside, though, you might want to talk to your doctor again about the most recent research done on LUPUS, and or check out the research yourself.

The causes of LUPUS are still not completely known. Apparently researchers have found lupus has been drug induced, triggered by the human parvovirus, as well as abnormal genes, and heavy metal toxicity, among other things, or even a combination of factors.

What IS known about LUPUS is that it is an auto-immune disease, that causes inflammation. Inflammation is a big danger, which is why anti-inflammatory drugs are used.

It used to be thought that auto-immune diseases were cased by an over-active immune system, which is why immune suppressant drugs were used. That still seems to be the "conventional wisdom."

However now you will see here (link below), that conclusion is being re-considered... Many doctors and researchers now think autoimmunity is in fact a type of immune DEFICIENCY. Meaning... it's not an over-active immune system... more of a misfunctioning one.

http://autoimmunedisease.suite101.com/article.cfm/immunostimulant_drugs_for_autoimmune_disease

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1081857

This issue is still be researched, but it would not be the first time that convention wisdom in medicine was proven to be wrong.

Regardless, you are correct about being careful of the herbs you take, especially when you are on medication. In the case of LUPUS, some herbs can interact with any NSAIDS you are taking.

Here is a list of herbs that are considered bad to take if you are also taking NSAIDS (non steroidal anti inflammatories).

http://www.hss.edu/conditions_14332.asp

However, the three herbs in the Qivana formula are:

Chinese Skullcap - an anti-inflammatory, perhaps also anti-viral (if Lupus is indeed triggered by a virus then...?)

Crown Herb - an antioxidant and adaptogen

White Korean Ginseng -

In addition to not being on that list, none of these are considered "immunostimulants" - they are considered "adaptogens." In short, adaptogens help your body to adapt to physical, chemical or biological stress. In this way they can help the immune system function properly, as it is known that factors, like stress, can weaken the immune system.

The third product in the Qivana Qore system is a detox which removes heavy metals from the body. Heavy metals are thought to be one of the the causes of LUPUS as well... see this...

http://www.marcjosephnutrition.com/mercury-poisoning-heavy-metal-toxicity.html

Anyway... I hope this helps clear this up. While I would always advise one to talk to their doctor before changing their approach, one might also take a pro-active approach with their health and take their doctor any new research they have found in medical journals.

New things are being discovered all the time, and busy doctors might occasionally miss out on a new study. I took my mothers doctor some research I printed out, they checked into it and, as a result, changed her medication (different condition).

Hopefully though, everyone on this site is here because they ARE pro-active and are going to do their own research before making any important decisions.
earthwalker
earthwalker

Hm...interesting.

From my knowledge and research and checking with my pharmacist...I present the following:

Chinese skullcap should not be taken by diabetics, anyone with stomach or spleen problems, or while pregnant or breastfeeding....it also can increase the effect of certain drugs, particularly those like Amitriptylene and also alchohol.

The Crown Herb (which has been trademarked by Qivana) is in fact Gynostemma pentaphyllum or Jiaogulan (a popular tea used in Chinese Medicine). This "miracle drug" apparently cures cancer and sexual dysfunction! It is not recommended while pregnant or breastfeeding, if you have a bleeding disorder or are due for surgery.

Korean White Ginseng is contra-indicated for all immune disorders including LUPUS it also interferes with many drugs, two I will mention are Tramadol and Amitriptylene. It increases your immune system so therefore is bad for people with Lupus.

The fact the product you are promoting contains a probiotic does not make it safe for the people in the Lupus Group and probably a legion of other people who are members of DS.

Might I add, my list is not exhaustive in the contra-indications list of diseases/disorders and or drugs for these herbs.

I have no idea how expensive your product is, but I lived in Asia for many years and these and similar herbs and medicines are available readily and cheaply from almost every marketplace. I live in Australia and we can get them here at several Chinese herbalist stores in the city.

I would never recommend taking any herbs, supplements or health products without checking with a pharmacist. Many people here have multiple health problems and also take a variety of medications.

Many of our members are very vulnerable and would do almost anything for a cure or some hope of making their lives more comfortable. Especially those who live alone and have to manage without support and our other members who have young families and all the work and responsibility that entails. Lupus takes many things from us.....we do not need expensive "miracle cures" and "false hope" - our bodies and our bank balances have been depleted enough. Enough said!
deleted_user
deleted_user

You "hit the nail on the head" with your post. Thank you for your knowledge. I hope everyone will read it and won't take Qivana or anything else that could be harmful.
Have a wonderful day.
Blessings to you and thanks again.........
Virginia