Infidelity Support Group

Any relationship in which one partner engages willfully in sexual relations with another outside of the partnership is considered to have experienced infidelity. This breach of trust is often traumatizing for the faithful partner as well as the relationship, and support is often needed to heal emotionally and to decide whether or not the relationship should continue after the transgression.

2 Online
2 Online

Dalai Lama Quote on forgiveness

One of the best ways to begin familiarizing ourselves with the virtue of patience is to reflect systematically on its benefits. It is the source of forgiveness. It has no equal in protecting our concern for others, however they behave towards us. When patience is combined with the ability to discriminate between the action and the one who does it, forgiveness arises naturally. -Dalai Lama

Replies

deleted_user
deleted_user

Ah, so that's my issue. I haven't learned to discriminate between the action and the one who does it. I still hate them both - deeply and equally!
deleted_user
deleted_user

I'm working on forgiving myself for settling for less in life than I wanted and for making such poor decisions. Forgiving my ex is still really far down on the list for me. After things like learning to trust again, forgiving myself, learning to put the past behind me and keep it there, making healthy decisions for myself and my children, etc, etc.
deleted_user
deleted_user

Ah, yes. Hate the sin, not the sinner. VERY hard to do sometimes, especially when it comes to cheating.... cheating is a very deliberate betrayal.

I never thought of patience being a part of forgiveness.... being slow to anger may help to think logically so that a person can CHOOSE not to hate the person. Hard, hard stuff.
Lstecker
Lstecker

I totally get this concept of differentiating between the person and the action - or as Michelle says - hate the sin and not the sinner. Very big concept in my small town.

...but how?

Aren't your actions a product of who you are? Inside? How you think and reason and logic? Are not the actions that come from THAT directly related to who you are as a person?

I had always thought so.

Sure, I can hate the sin but love the sinner - but where does accountability stand in this? Or even personal responsibility?

Hell, I am just throwing this all out there as I see it.

Like this...I would like to rob a bank on those days when the ol' check book says I can't go shopping - even to the Dollar Mart. But my ethics and WHO I AM stop me from doing that. That's not me - so I go to work and grab some over time so I CAN go to the Dollar Mart. Because that's how I roll.

Am I making sense here?

We can try like hell to separate a person from their actions, but I kind of lean toward a person's actions speaking FOR them.

Like my EX's OW/Now wife/ called Spam by my kids as the imitation meat. HER actions directly reflect who she is, what she was/is capable of, what gives her pride (in destroying my family) and who she is now. Spammy rocks on that. She loves it. It makes her happy.

I can't love that sin or that sinner. Not liking her at all - not for having him now - but for what she is clearly capable of, as a person, as a woman, as a less than human...

Just my two cents...L~

(still not getting my updates, but I'll be sure to check back in and see what you think)
deleted_user
deleted_user

I tend to agree with you, L. I understand the concept of 'hate the sin, not the sinner'. I just don't believe it's always appropriate, as in the case of cheating. As mentioned before, it is a deliberate, calculated, deceitful act. It requires hours and hours of planning, lying and manipulating.

There has to be something inside of a person to be able to constantly live in that world. It has to be a part of your internal 'makeup'. It has to be a part of who you are as a person.

Cheating isn't a mistake. A cheater knows exactly what they are doing, evey time they do it. In fact, they enjoy it - repeatedly. It's not a one time transgression.

OOps, sorry, I'm starting to ramble, because this is an issue I feel very, very strongly about. Too much is destroyed behind this selfishness. It causes too much pain for too many people and there's no reason for it.

Anyway, I still hate both sin and sinner - equally (specifically in this case). However, I do forgive myself for making bad decisions and not listening too my instincts soon enough. I'll try not to do that again in the future. Hey, you live, you learn!

Peace and Love.
Lstecker
Lstecker

Thanks Rositas...I would like to hear from others here.

Seems we put a pretty high premium on forgiveness and what it actually is...and how we feel about it all...

this is a great conversation.

L~
3GuysMom
3GuysMom

I was curious to see how people would be affected by the quote. For myself, I'm trying to forgive. I know that every situation is not the same. I was hoping that for those who are working on forgiveness it would be helpful.
deleted_user
deleted_user

I have always maintained the saying Hate the Sin and not the Sinner as well. Patience in forgiving is very difficult for me. And although I do not hate my H it is very hard for me to forgive his actions (sin) especially if they continue after he apologizes.

I heard on Joyce Meyer the other day when you are having a hard time forgiving one person for their actions against you.....think about how many times Jesus has fogiven us for our repeated actions against Him.
deleted_user
deleted_user

I dont believe forgiving the person who has comiited the offenses against me is necessary at all. They are repsonsible. They did it, Its not the sin (for lack of a better word) that caused me issue, it was the erson who took it upon themselves to lie, decieve, manipulate, me. The acts are just that. Acts, harmless really UNTIL perpetrated upon you by another.

I'll never forgive the ones who have caused such chaos in my life. My life no longer revolves around the chaos, and I'm content enough. =)
deleted_user
deleted_user

This quote is perfect, but of course that is in theory, not in real. My mother taught me years ago that holding a grudge or hating someone in reality does no harm to the person you are holding the grudge to or hating, it only harms yourself.
For me it is easier and healthier to let go of the hate or grudge and find a way to move on. It has now been 5 weeks since DDay for me and I am in a better place then I was, mostly due to not holding a grudge or hatred and my wife has been wonderful and supportive. Not that I am not still in a tremendous pain and fighting the "movies" in my head. I still have a hard time focusing on anything or concentrating. I have not been able to forgive my wife for her actions, but I am working toward that goal. It will be easier to attain that without the hate.
Forgiveness is more for myself. It will give me peace. That is true no matter if we stay together or not. If we stay together it will be the beginning of a stronger marriage. If we seperate it will be the beginning of me being a stronger, happier and hopefully wiser person.
Thank you for posting this.
deleted_user
deleted_user

Knife, I was just going to comment on that. Holding a grudge becomes a bitter prison for us... and we want freedom. Nothing we can do will ever 'repay' our CS for the betrayal and pain and destruction it caused us. Nothing. I will never get back the years of my life I gave to him. I will never get back the trust I gave him. I will never get back that sense of 'everything is right in the world' that I had before. Nothing will ever be the same as it was. Nothing.

So the CHOICE to forgive... and it is a daily choice.... is the only thing that keeps me free from having to come up with something that will hurt him. And allows me to focus on building my life.
deleted_user
deleted_user

L, you made me really think. Thank you. I don't particularly like the word forgiveness. It gives the impression that they are off the hook. I know that's not the case, but it just seems that if you forgive someone that you've told them that it's ok. It is so NOT ok. I try everyday to forgive my ex. Some days I'm successful, some days I'm not. It would be a lot easier if he wouldn't continue to do stuff that I have to forgive him for!

I have issues with the whole accountability thing. My christian counselor assures me that even though God forgives everyone that at some point he will have to come face to face with God and explain. I don't envy him that. I have a long list, but nothing compares to his. He chose a skank and continues to do so daily, over his children. WHO does that?

Anyway, I'm not expressing myself very well but I will continue to try and learn from my experiences, become a healthier human being and let God handle my ex when the time comes. Forgive? Maybe. Forget? Never.
deleted_user
deleted_user

@L - its even harder to separate the sin from the sinner when they have shown a pattern of the behavior that now defines who they are. Humans make mistakes, we all know that. And while every incident of cheating is a conscious choice, a one-night stand is certainly different from repeated cheating and long-term affairs. When a cheating spouse has basically become a serial cheater and you can mark milestones in the marriage by who he/she was cheating with at that particular time, its kind of hard to differentiate. They normally don't believe they are doing anything wrong but a big part of me finally divorcing my cheating ex was that she basically had changed into someone I not only didn't want to be married to, but basically didn't want any connection to at all. I love my children more than anything, but if they weren't around, it would have been very easy to just up and leave and never speak to my ex again.
Lstecker
Lstecker

@ DAD - yes, I so agree. If I didn't have kids with my EX, I would have never spoken to him again. He's just not someone that I would chose to keep around me. 'Birds of a feather' as my Dad used to say... because of WHO he showed himself to really be.

These people run around and do the cheating - and then justify it all in their twisted minds. That speaks volumes - at least to me.

Yes, I know - love the sinner and hate the sin. In my very, very small town with 'how many churches now???' that concept is very real - but when it all hit the fan for me, I could not separate what he and Spam did from who they are in thier cores. This is a good concept and all - and it may work for some - and it may not work for others.

Flutterby, yes - forgiveness has always given the impression of 'wiping the slate clean.' Like it never happened. Just as DAD says, it's the pattern of behavior that lets us know what they are really all about. Not the one time instances -but the pattern of continued offenses. And those patterns?

...well, those patterns aren't something that I want in my life everyday.

'I know we had 20 years together, but I'll be damned if the next 20 years of MY life will be the same...'

L~
deleted_user
deleted_user

Yes, I see the logic in what you write but even after 30 years I will never forgive my H for what he did, I will never be able to.
An affair is a tragedy, crucifying to say the least and the damage and destruction to the partner/spouse and families is irreparable.
We all have different philosophies and I am not the Dalai Lama. God was able to forgive but I am not God.