I imagine there is a deep chasm or ravine between him and myself. When he says something manipulative (usually passive-aggressive), I let it drop into the ravine in silence. I ask him to state his business in clear, unambiguous asssertions, and that then I can answer him.

My husband is so manipulative and passive aggressive to an extreme...that our communication has now been reduced to writing to each other in a notebook. Its harder for him to lie, when its in writing and documented. :)
Saves me the aggrivation of his taunting and nasty body language too. Most of what I had difficulty with when dealing with him...is what was SAID without words..
Its very very hard not to get sucked into the vicious cycle of manipulation...dear lord, I spent the better part of 12 years in that cycle..

1. Is manipulation a really a weapon, someone can only manipulate you if you let them, I learned that recently.

2. You just don't allow the maniplation to take place. You have to firm a resiliant about it.

My stbx is the Empress of manipulation but she can't do it to me now because except for a piece of paper she is out of my life. I hope to have the stbx completely out of my life very, very soon.

Yeah I told my stbx that she has to write me emails or txts (from her phone and email address) or letter if she wants to discuss anything. As she uses the kids as human shields. Whenever she wants to do something for them it is for their "good" and when I want to do something for them I am being "disruptive". I have decided to resort to good old fashioned blackmail.

Sean: I tried that but she refused.Said if i wanted to know about their "condition" or "status" that i need to be man enough to call..not text or email.(see manipulation tactic!)

Wick: Yeah..so that's what i have been told by many friends/family. But than i am put into a "position" where i feel like i have "no choice" but to allow it(for my kids sake as an example!).They live with her and if i don'r "do as she says ..when she says..than i lose out and by proxy..so do the kids) Grrrr!

She has me by the "preverbial balls" so to speak.If i don't allow her to and take a stand..i lose my opportunity to see my kids..if i do..than i have to put up with all of her "manipulation".What's a guy to do?

Can you just not talk to the kids? How old are they?

A guy needs to go to court to get joint custody of his kids, that is what a guy has to do You are giving her all the power which lets her manipulate you. Take away the power and she can't do it any more. You are the only one who can do this. My stbx has made vague threats, well and this point there is not a whole lot more she can do so she can no longer manipulate me and when she says stuff I just say do what you have to do and move on to the next battle.

CHI. yes..i do talk to them daily(or nightly usually.They are 4(our son) and 10(hers but been with her since 2 yrs old)

She has lied about being pregnant,threatened to leave the state..and on and on.I want to be part of their lives..so i guess i just suck it up and take it.Know that 99% is unvalidated and at some point get a decree of custody (which btw i cannot afford to do now!)

That's my question.HOW to avoid yet be a part.Be one(with the kids) but separated from her.Apparently their is no clear answer.Other than the legal one...

CVGL rite on, its the best medicine but takes some getting used to. Learning from your mistakes like a mouse in a trap, when you respond there is no right answer. They just want a rise outta you.

Don't take wicks's answer directly to you. Some people get so used to this new lifestyle, living with (even if not physically if you have children guess what ... forever) these crazed people that forget newbies need time to adjust. So wick is right but please understand it is not as easy nor as quick as written.

As far as the kids. My mom separated from my dad, and reminds me how much I saw of his abuse to my mom, but I still clung to him. I was 10 and brother 6. I now at 33 can say he wasn't the best but not the worst of fathers but when I go over the memories and facts I should think worst. She reminds me that children aren't as fragile as we think. They will not replace you unless they must to survive. It hurt so bad but for the very same reasons I had to cut them off to get myself together. This only last about 4 weeks, but felt like 4 months. I tried calling my brother in laws phone but that was not reliable spoke to them twice a week (he works to jobs and is a bachelor) so then I had to resort to calling her phone still only 4 times a week. Then took them only once the past two weeks for 3 hours because my place was a wreck with no furniture etc.. Felt terrible but this will pass for them and all they will remember is that daddy wasn't around as much as before. It hurts to here about this other guy but my mom reminded me of her very few boyfriends and how I never tried to replace my dad. And like I said he wasn't the best.

I've just had them for the first time overnight just last night. Missed out on some much needed work but really began feeling guilty.

I plan on smothering the hell out of them every chance I get until I get court orders (if necessary). I will make them tired of me if I can that is the best you can do. Trust me their eyes are not as harsh as ours. You'll do fine as long as you know your trying your best when they get to my age and younger you'll hear from them what your report card was.

I know she's hurt..and alot of the things she says is to "get a rise' out of me.But it just irks me instead..which is better than nothing i'm sure to her.

She says i shouldn't think so much of myself as to feel like she is saying and doing things that affect my reaction to her.In her words.."she doesn't need me but the kids do." Unfortunately her actions dictate differently.

Either EVERYTHING is 100% true and i am a complete moron or it is fabricationa nd lies..intended on persuation in order to get her way and therefore still have SOME control over me.THATS what i feel in my heart it is.A way to stay connected and have some control!!!
_Savery1

Manipulation waged by a person without a palpable conscience, and who is either a psychopath, or sociopath, explains their brutal indifference. I call these people BCWDA. They are histrionic, narcissistic, lying, cheating, stealing, drug abusing people of the lie. You have encountered human evil. It is that simple. They ae BCWDA scum.

I try and avoid her phone calls EVERY time if the kids are not in her care, or mine, which she does to me about 4 times per day on average give or take a cpl times. usually, the conversations are very short, what time to pick up drop off, etc. I try and have the kids and/or her meet me at a central location ie. library, kmart, dance studio, restaurant, a friends house, etc. I keep a digital recorder on my person at all times, and I do NOT allow her into my home but when is seperately scheduled prior. But she still manages to squeak a couple in here and there. Ugh..