Things that make you go : "Hmmmmm".............

If you are powerless any power would be higher right?

And this coming from a dog??

Too funny!

Guru

OK! See if I have this right!

If I am powerless over alcohol, then a door knob can be my higher power and the power to stop drinking lies within my door knob.

Just as long as you connect with it daily. I actually thought in the past of making my dog my HP. She is smart enough not to drink, but than again she can't reach the counter either.

My mind has just been running wild today.

If I am made in the image and likeness of God, then God is an alcoholic and powerless over alcohol and I should not use him as my higher power. I should stick with the door knob.

I like to speculate in a philosophical manner.

How can the door knob remove my defects of character, when I do not have any? I am not saying that I am perfect. I am unique not defective.

AnhMinh, what is the point you're trying to make? I'm a little confused, are u looking for suggestions? Unsure of your beliefs? I'm not sure where you're going with this so I don't really know how to comment.

having an open mind is the point. I was willing to do anything suggested to stop drinking. If one can work the program long enough for miracles to happen I think the anwsers just come to them

As I have progressed through my recovery my idea of a higher power did too.

Whatever works for you Ann. Thats the point. You don't have to believe in a religious God. You don't have to believe in the doorknob. The point is the willingness to accept that there might be something other than a person, place or thing in this world that can restore you to sanity. Crack the door open. He'll do the rest.

what Patty said pretty much.

I am not powerless. I can quit without a higher power.

Hi all. I think Anh is making quite an astute point; by taking an idea to the extreme we can see how the idea is not founded in proper examination and rigorous thinking.

'having an open mind is the point. I was willing to do anything suggested to stop drinking.'

Well, I would love to say 'whatever works' but I am not willing to do what anyone tells me to do. If someone told me to believe little fat pigs flew in heaven and decided on all our fates, or grass is blue, or all blacks are inferior ... many other things I am not willing to believe in order to get sober. The fact is I cannot believe them.

There is a lot of talk about belief on this site. But isn't it the case that the steps require a SUSPENSION of belief? I think this is the case and explains why many atheist/agnostics are 'converted'. I guess all faith requires that because it does not work within a rational framework, and therefore it is both impossible to prove and defend (maybe this is why a critique of someone's God can engender such an emotional, defensive response).

Anyway, my point is that a few of us here are having difficulty with the steps as pushed by AA, and this is not because we are being petty, it is not because we are sick in the head, or perverted, or trying to cause trouble. It is not 'the disease talking'. We are people who are trying to deal with our problems and work things out without resorting to mysticism or abdication of personal responsibilty. There are those who have worked the steps and have failed, sometimes again and again. There are those outside this 'system' who have achieved sobriety for many years without the steps.

And yet there are some who even though have not sustained long term sobriety have granted themselves a breathtakingly arrogant moral superiority. Because we dare to talk about God non existing, or even trying to be sober without AA, or trying to interpret the steps in more meaningful terms, the few of us in the minority here have been bullied, told to shut up, stuff it, we are sick, and lastly - and most patronisingly (a therapist would be shot if she/he talked like this LOL) that we can't say anything of worth basically because first and foremost we are alcoholics.

I plan to leave this group - the new group is not quite so small minded hopefully - but I think it needs to made clear to the webmasters that this support group is most vocally an AA group, and that those with different views will be shouted down and bullied out. It is such a shame as there are many friends I have made here (who I still want to keep in touch with!) but it has been ruined by the nastiness of a few and the general unwillingness to debate certain sticky issues like potential brainwashing, evangelism, whether AA works and who can achieve sobriety without AA (because relapses happen to everyone, steps or no) etc. This group can be massively supportive, but there are some tough issues that sometimes need to discuss and I think people interpret disagreement with being unsupportive.

Anyway, hope to see a few faces in the group Jill set up. Cheerio mates!

Now I know this is silly, so be warned.

My partner and I were discussing the whole problem with HP. And of course it can't be anything that can be a HP because it has to have more power than you. So he said, what if alcohol were your higher power?

Right. Now that's a mind bender!