Hi - I understand what you are saying.I struggle with the "higher being " aspect but think I need to go and get help wherever I can.I stopped drinking yesterday
Regards
Les

We admitted not I - all alcoholics are powerless over alcohol.

Congrats on your sobriety. That takes a lot of courage.

We think we are unique with our story relating to alcoholism. You will find the more you hear alcholics tell their stories you will relate to part of the story and one day you will hear your story. I did. It's in that sense that we are not unique.

I never lost my individuality and I have 15 years of continuous sobriety thanks to my Higher Power which I choose to call God and AA as a whole.

Keep doing meetings and things will get better.

I don't in any way feel that I have given up my individuality, or personality, to adopt the group dynamic. My understanding is that you understand that you are not unique in that you drank to change the way you feel. That is what most alcoholics are doing, drinking to change the way they feel. Noone in the group is going to have a story just like yours, your story is unique to you just as mine is unique to me. There are certain aspects of your story, however, that may strike a chord of familiarity with your fellows. Not a "that is exactly what happened to me" thing. More of a "I understand totally what that guy/girl is feeling." I hope this helps. Also, talk to your sponsor about it - if you have one. If you don't, then get one. That is what they are there for.

I wanted to add it is normal to question certain aspects of the program and that is normal.
Easy Does It.

Hey there. You are not losing your identity. You are handing over your will over to your HP. Basically having HP in your life to help you with the challenges. You are not handing over your identity. You need to be true to yourself.

You do not lose your individuality. Just remember the "disease" doesn't want you to get well, so it will make up all kind's of excuses.That's why there is resistance, it's the disease tugging you back,it don't want you sober. It's cunning,baffling, and powerful,can't be relieved by human power whatsoever.Remember the big book also says "see what you find and join us". Everyone in AA that i know of is an individual,they have there own god's and there own ideas about things, thats why its called a meeting. I think you're confusing AA with a cult, and it's far from that. You have alot of freedom in AA, we just try to stay sober one day at a time.

I have been in AA for around 3 months now, and the only thing I fight against is the one or two 'devout christians ' who feel that we all should be like them. Otherwise i feel that I am allowed to be an individual. The group do not expect you to give up your personality etc, but by giving up ie sharing your past, it makes it more manageable for you, and others can advise, empathise with you.
The others in my group have all got entirely different stories to me, and are all very different, but their stories and how they overcame problems and maintained sobriety are inspirational. We are all there for the one reason - sobriety.
You do have to accept that you are an alcoholic and wish to get sober, but if you didn't then sobriety is an unachievable goal.
Why don't you try another group, as they are all different. Don't stop being you, but look at some of the similarities in the stories of the others. No matter how different you think you are, there will be similarities.
Good luck.

XXX

Why not question AA, its a free world and we should question anything that we are unsure of or unhappy with.

Is it a cult, you could say that it perhaps borders on being a cult, but its only objective is to keep people sober, so if it were indeed a Cult one could hardly describe it as harmfull one.

I think I would argue against it's cult status in favour of a group of human beings wanting one thing sobriety.

In the groups that I have been to, everybody has their own personal identity, however the one thing that we have in common is that we are alcoholics, our stories may be similar but they are about an individuals experience rather than a group.

The expersion "Handing your self over to the group" is more a way of showing your commitment, and sharing this safely with others, you not offering your body and soul up for slaughter, so stop worrying.

Perhaps the wordings could be better, but they have worked for a long time, so Ithink most are of the opinion why change them.

I am the type of person that questions most things in life, the AA can provide you with as little or as much as you choose to take from it.

In it's very essence, it borders on cultism, but nobody I know, delibratly became an Alcoholic to join, so I would say that it is not a Cult, but a fellowship of people that desire one thing, sobriety.

So try and let your gaurd down, you may just be bringing out the old side in you, it's truly not needed, and could be holding you back.

Go to meetings, take what you can and leave what you don't want, thats what I was taught any way

Trcikey

Excellent Question. Now try having this way in your perspective. How is your life today. If for any reason you are struggling with anything, and find it difficult to handle. Why not get out of the way allow your higher power(which could be an ashtray if you choose) take over the situation with an attempt to change an outlook. If your way is not working, I guess it wouldn't hurt to try.

In no way are you changing your identity. Just trying to see yourself in a different manner.

We are not bad people trying to get good. We are sick people trying to get better. Not a cult, but an advisory. Take what you can use, and leave what you cannot. Remember there are no leaders, but trusted servants. You are not required to follow any direction, but try to see how some stories apply to your life. Not compare. Keep the faith. God bless

I don't know much about cults, but it would seem to me that most cults don't have revolving members. I thought in most cults members were competely committed or ran like hell.

I know that doesn't answer your question completely, my only suggestion is to go to a few more meetings. If you hear someone share something you identify with then talk to that person. When I started makeing friends in AA, I started to realize just how different everyone is with one powerful thing in common, the desire to stop drinking. I have friends that I might have nothing else in common with if I weren't a recovering alcoholic, yet the friendships are strong...best I've ever had.

I hope I was helpful.

I, personally, don't feel like AA is "cultish" at all but, of course, that doesn't do much to help you. The others have given some sage advice. All I can say is give it an honest try before giving up. It has helped *so* many people.

Some observations:

Eric Hoffer once said "when people are free to do as they please, they usually imitate each other"

How very true this is. Look at life and the bigger picture. How so very often do we nestle in clicks and pockets of society, even society itself. How desperately do we yearn to belong and not be alone? There is conformity even in nonconformity and eccentricity.

Cult-like. I'd agree to an extent. There is a certain conformity of thought and action. However where AA parts from the true definition of the word is the fact that there is no iconic (human) figure/leader and no slimy bastard trying to get a slice of your income to purchase his 16th Mercedes.

AA is democracy in action. Democracy needs ground rules and a lack of total anarchy. The primary meaning of 'culto' in Spanish means well-educated, well-read and a feeling of affinity with the arts - think that one over...

The big book says "We have a way out on which we absolutely agree, and upon which we can join in brotherly and harmonious action."

Harmony and brotherhood in a solution to a fatal illness. I like the sound of that.

I used to be an opter-outer and even rejected all the norms of society and went to live a bohemian lifestyle in a caravan in the countryside with no home comforts (water, electricity etc). Did I find happiness? Yes, for while... Did I find non-conformity - not really - in fact my thirst for it increased dramatically and I was just another hippy living in a sub-society...

Brainwashing. I like to call it reprogramming. An alcoholic's mind has become trained to obsess about and yearn for a fix to a spiritual dis - ease through a drink. The mind wants an instant psychic change. If I can escape that hell and prison of thought through brotherly and harmonious action then bring it fecking on...

One of the many paradoxes of AA is that through a degree of conformity, true individualism can be found. Victory can be had through surrender, control regained through handing over, freedom through discipline and routine, the realisation of true self through 'brotherly' participation.

My one and single suggestion to you would be to not place so much emphasis on what is said and done in meetings. Read the big book and discover how this illness relates to you as an individual and how singleness of action through the steps contained therein towards the solution can truly set you free. It's not what you do or say in meetings that counts, it's out in the big wide world that you really prove your metal.

Allow me to finish my musings with another quotation:

"Finally, on this controversial issue I have a bone of contention. Alcoholics have to rejoin the human race in a society that has very little sympathy for them. For good quality sobriety they must do this, and forming little fraternities, as a world within the world, is almost like setting up a kind of leper colony that can only lead to isolation. It can become purgatory and generate a 'them and us' situation which turns the illness into a millstone for life."

Nick Charles - who received an MBE from the queen for his work with alkies, having once been a down and out on the streets of London. He is not AA, and I completely respect that, the big book even says "If he thinks he can do the job in some other way, or prefers some other spiritual approach, encourage him to follow his own conscience. We have no monopoly on God; we merely have an approach that worked with us."

Nick Charles says this about AA "I failed miserably with AA. I have no criticism of their philosophy as it was originally written... any watering down of this philosophical doctrine is hypocrisy of the highest degree".

So... If you think you can work a spiritual program as you obviously do from your post - throw yourself into AA the big book way and live it in all your daily affairs. True individualism and freedom awaits you on your wonderful personal journey ahead... The one common theme that I see in various recovery programs is that we need to help other alkies - there is a chapter dedicated to that in the big book. Don't forget that!

PS Maybe I don't keep it simple in my words, but I try to keep it simple in my daily actions :)

i have been sober 21yrs and i did not lose my individuality. i actually find it there. what i have in common with aa members is i am a suffering alcoholic trying to get better. i don't mean i am literally suffering. i suffer from the disease of alcoholism. i found myself in aa. i found the person i was a long time ago. i also found out that only a power greater than myself could relieve my disease. and i also learned to take the suggestions from the people who came before me. i had to learn healthy behaviors. so yes u do have to change, but for the better. i cannot stay sober by just not drinking. the 12 steps allowed me to look at myself and see that i needed to change to become an even better individual. i am unique as a person, but not when it comes to my disease. if you really want to stay sober by going to aa just be patient. things do get better. i know when i first came into aa they asked me if you know as much why are you here. used to piss me off. but they were right. and why be different with recovery if it works. no need to re-invent the wheel.

peace,
denise

One last point I feel I should clear up. Nick charles says he failed in AA cos of meetings and what he was told there and basically a lack of adherence to the true message of the Big Book.

"I have heard people told they can choose whatever they wish as their higher power, varying from the sublime to the ridiculous... Anyone who is not committed to a God is almost guaranteed to fail and no amount of 'bending the rules' to accommodate for numbers can be a substitute."

His words are harsh, but I personally take heed. He believes in the message of the big book, not watered down confusing messages spouted out at meetings. That said, patience and humility can be found at meetings and lets face it, we all need fellowship and support in this lonely illness. If you feel you are a true alcoholic as described in the Big Book, then if you commit yourself 100% to its solution, it will work, it is for me...

I think the unique issue had to do with the self-centeredness. Drunks are self-centered egomaniacs. Being unique smacks of being self-centered and being an egomaniac. You will always be unique. You are the best you you can be. I'd do a lousy job trying to be you.

The best comment I can make is to take the program seriously, work it earnestly if you have a desire to stop drinking. The original Big Book manuscript said 'honest desire'....but they realized for drunks, honesty was an unfamiliar and fluid concept.

Most of all don't wrap the 'coat' of AA to tightly. Think, Think, Think...but Don't Think, Don't Drink, Go to Meetings, Clean House, work with others.. Pull the program in close when things get scary and slippery. Loosen it occasionally otherwise you'll find a resentment against AA. And resentments get us drink eventually.