I am not the best to answer this, but I do think they believe some of their lies there in the moment they say them, but later they feel its them who are treated unfairly so it must be us there is something wrong with..this leads them to feel justified in whatever they spin up, maybe they in their twisted mind believe those lies after the D&D, its hard to say, but I think most likely they must know that they lie and so to make themselves look better. I think they enjoy in a cruel way to slander their victim as to further hurt them and step over them.
Maybe also they are to some extent delusional...I guess it depends on if he has narcissistic traits too...that they believe a part of their lies because of they can slip into self righteous delusional thoughts. I feel its hard to know whats going on in their mind.
Do they believe their own lies?Posted on 03/07/13, 10:42 am
Something I have been curious about.....does the S/P/N truly believe what they say during D&D (smear campaign) or do they know what they are saying is completely untrue and they do it anyway as part of the process? At what point do they believe their own lies or maybe they never do and are just playing games? Like the rest of you, I went from being the most wonderful woman and fiance to being this person (in his eyes) that I have no idea who he is describing. In your experience can they even recognize the difference between truth and lies in general? Is there some degree of projection occurring still at this point? Do they TRULY see themselves as victims to unjust people or is this just their way of gaining sympathy yet again?
Reply #1 03/07/13 11:04am
Reply #2 03/07/13 11:13am
It seems amazing if they really can believe something that is so far away from the truth and that they actually should believe in that. If they really believed it fully it would mean they are totally delusional and as far as I have read S or P is not delusional, they are totally aware what they do, but just dont care.
Again, I think it depends on how much narcissism in in them and if they have some sort of other disorder mixed in.
Reply #3 03/07/13 1:05pm
I think whenever there is a lie, there is the truth in knowing its a lie. Try as they might, they know they are lying. That is why they arent really "insane", just immoral. Just my Opinion.
Reply #4 03/07/13 1:19pm
i found this on a website when i looked up, does a sociopath know they are lying.....my understanding is that they believed there lies, i think i misunderstood if this is correct. its more about their lies benefitting them in there mind and they have not the concious to even care if they lie.
Without question, an Antisocial Personality is well aware they are telling a lie and in fact, lie very purposefully in an attempt to manipulate others, deny personal responsibility, escape the consequences of their behavior, or place them at some advantage. Telling a lie is always an option for an Antisocial Personality, especially when their behavior has caused them some social or personal difficulties.
Sadly, Antisocial and criminal personalities lie as a lifestyle. Their lies range from daily excuses and promises to complex schemes and scams that are based on a series of lies and deceptions. Some criminals (antisocial personalities) develop a set of lies/deceptions to con and steal from others, as we’ve seen in the media recently. Criminals develop false identities, companies, money schemes, check forgeries, etc. In my experience, Antisocial Personalities have no remorse, empathy, guilt, or concern for the victims of their lies: their personal situation is their only priority.
An Antisocial Personality doesn’t believe his or her lies — but that doesn’t bother them. It’s actually worse than that. They are only concerned that their victim believes the lie and for that reason, if they suspect you aren’t totally accepting their current lie, they will offer additional lies and promises until you are convinced. A physically abusive Antisocial Personality will actually blame his victim for the assault and if the victim doesn’t accept the lie, they will quickly use another lying strategy such as a promise to enter therapy, stop drinking, etc. When confronted, their major goal is to escape the consequences of their behavior — nothing else really matters. Once the lie works to their benefit, such as avoiding arrest or marital separation, they return to their previous behavior.
"Antisocial Personalities are not delusional and do not live in a fantasy world. They live in their world, where everyone around them is a potential victim. They fully realize they are telling a lie. They also know they will tell another lie if their first lie is discovered. Honest individuals have a personal investment in their word and promise, linking their sense of self-worth and self-esteem with their honesty. An Antisocial Personality has a personal investment in their survival and selfish demands — with no investment in their given word or promises. If you don’t like their first lie…wait a few minutes and you’ll receive another"
i dont know if that answered your question or not. i hope it helped.
Reply #5 03/07/13 1:29pm
here is some more info about their lying , sorry its kind of long but good info.
Sociopaths lie. They lie a lot. In fact, they can create total and complete fairy tales out of ordinary, mundane events and can live within those fairy tales, until eventually their own fabrications become their reality. There are generally two recognized categories of individuals who constantly lie: compulsive (habitual) and pathological. Habitual liars lie out of habit. They are afraid to face the truth. Maybe they avoided punishment as a child by lying, so lying has become as ingrained into their personality as any other characteristic. There is no real reason, and they normally do not lie to intentionally hurt anyone. They just can’t help but lie. You can stand next to a compulsive liar and look together at the bright, blue sky and they will tell you that it just turned green. They simply lie to lie.
Sociopaths are pathological liars. They lie to gain something. Worse yet, their lying is usually calculated and cunning and in the end someone will get hurt. Rest assured, though, they’ve taken every precaution to ensure it isn’t them. A sociopath doesn’t care who their lies will affect, as long as in the end the lie fits their purpose and they get what they want. Unlike compulsive liars, pathological liars can help themselves. They know the difference between right and wrong, and they consciously recognize that lying is wrong. Unfortunately, they don’t really care. In fact, they are so good at lying, many times they become their own lie. Think about it for a minute. How much more convincing can someone who truly believes what they are saying be? The power of suggestion is a powerful thing. If a sociopath can stage himself to believe his own lie and truly live in his own fantasy, how many more people can he convince it is the truth and wreak his havoc and devastation on?
Pathological lying is an invaluable tool for a sociopath. It is the ultimate weapon when trying to gain pity and sympathy from their unsuspecting victims. It may be an embellishment, it may be a slight twist in a story, or it may be a whole new reality. For you to know they lived through an extremely abusive childhood and that their mother abandoned them at a homeless shelter when they were 3 years old is most likely going to pull at your heart strings more than knowing they lived an average life in an upper-middle class family. It makes the average, empathetic person more vulnerable to the sociopath’s current plight. For some reason, many people make excuses for people’s behavior if they are aware of exigent circumstances. Sociopaths know and have mastered this game and will use it against you and never think twice about the results. How they are so adept at using empathy against you when they’ve never experienced it is really quite a feat.
If you pay very close attention, many times you can catch a sociopath in a lie because they have a tendency to tell more than one person contradictions in or different versions of the same lie. However, the sociopath is also apt to make sure that individuals who have been told different stories do not have the chance to meet or be able to compare stories. They lie to keep acquaintances apart to minimize the risk of being exposed. Everything the sociopath does is multi-layered and tediously formulated. Even if they are exposed, they are sure to create a new lie to cover the old. They can do this almost as naturally as they breathe, which also makes them very convincing. It’s kind of like watching a young child steal a cookie from the cookie jar then deny ever taking it, even though they know you saw them do it. The sociopath employs the same techniques, seemingly incapable of exercising adult judgment. Always remember when dealing with the sociopath—they will do whatever it takes to win. Your feelings or your perceived relationship with them does not matter to them. You cannot change them, and if you think they will “treat you differently than everyone else”, you are only fooling yourself. They do not have the capability or the desire to care about you. Nobody is “special” to a sociopath unless you are serving an immediate, necessary purpose for them.
Sociopaths are highly likely to lie about and fake credentials in the business world. Don’t be surprised if you find out your sociopath boss never even went to college, let alone graduated from Harvard. Sociopaths are highly likely to lie about previous relationships to those that would be considered current relationships. Teen sociopaths are highly likely to lie about situational circumstances with their parents and/or siblings or other family members, if it will gain them sympathy. Sociopaths are highly likely to lie about physical or mental abuses if it will help them in a divorce/custody situation. Sociopaths are highly likely to lie about their recovery or reform to counselors if it will help them get out of prison. The list goes on and on, but the concept remains the same. A sociopath is a pathological liar and there isn’t anything you can do to stop them."
Reply #6 03/07/13 1:46pm
i believe they know exaactly what they are doing , they just dont care and are not equipped with the emotions , remorse and such, to give a damn and they will lie and do what ever takes to best fit there needs. they are master manipulators and will stop at nothing to get what they want. that is why you need to stay away from them and do not engage in there lies and games. you will lose the fight. for the people they are close to , sooner or later they will expose themselves but in the mean time they can be very convincing, you were closest to him and something told you something wasnt right. so you took a closer look and found out just about everything about him was a lie. when a smear camapign begins its so important to just be who you are and not go around defending yourself to everyone it makes you appear as crazy as he is saying you are. thats why we say do not engage with him in any way it will back fire against you almost always.
Reply #7 03/07/13 11:28pm
OK. It sounds weird but it makes me feel better now that i know that HE knows he is lying. Totally demented right? He is just flaunting himself at this point. He was spotted eating lunch two blocks away from where I work today. He has been in hiding for 3 months although everyone knows where he is, the police just can't prove it. I called the police and they sent someone over to pick him up but he was gone by the time they got there. DAMN! This man seriously needs to be removed from the streets for public safety. I have never had so much hatred for a person...it's bursting out of me. I will feel much better once they are able to arrest him and he will be gone from my life and hopefully my mind forever. HOW DARE HE DO ALL OF THIS AND THEN LIE LIE LIE ABOUT WHAT HE HAS DONE! He is a sick bastard and I want him gone!
Reply #8 03/08/13 12:57am
Sociopaths don't believe their own lies any more than actors do. When they say they believe their own lies they are just playing the "magic if" game of acting e.g. "if I really was a friend what would I say to him right now?"
The sociopath's "magic if" is his/her mask. He wears it to impress and get close when he's with you. But by himself -inside his own mind-he schemes on how to use you later.
The types that believe their own lies are cult leading psychopaths (sociopaths) e.g Charles Manson believe their own conjuring but they are a special bunch.
Reply #9 03/08/13 6:09am
I believe they know they are lying, but they don't care about the implications or consequences. Permanently thinking on their feet, they say whatever they have to say, at that moment, to evade taking responsibility for their dubious actions.
Lies are their primary de-stablizing weapon, they can twist and turn events to the point where you think you are losing your mind. But they are not good liars, I have found in my experience, maybe in the beginning of a relationship, but anyone who has spent any length of time in the company of a psycho will be picking up on inconsistencies in behaviour and conflicting stories (red flags).
Reply #10 03/08/13 11:27am
maybe thats why mine would get so mad when i would catch him in a lie, he would find a way to turn it around back onto me and it would end up being my fault. that would drive me crazy!!!!
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Is he or she a sociopath or psychopath? Think we're only talking about serial killers here? Psychopaths, sociopaths and even narcissists come in every walk of life, every career level, and every socio-economic category.