nnyl1

I considered myself as left of center...

Posted on 10/24/09, 11:25 am

But now I consider myself more to the left.

Anyone else feel like that?

I have an old friend who is a right republican. Not right wing nut job, but a republican right of center.i have never agreed with his politics. But there was a time people, with different believes, could be friends by never talking about politics,religion or taxes.

what happened to those times? he is 65, a MS mentor for me when I got this disease. I will not communicate with him at all, by phone, email or mail. The time of not talking about politics, religion or taxes is gone. What happened to those time?

• Reply #1 10/24/09  1:27pm
  
  nancy2
  The internet?
  
  What happened to respecting the president that is in office no matter what party they are with?
  
  I just came across the problem of my best friend from 6 years old is a very conservative christian and favorite channel is Fox News when listing herself on FB. Every thing in me wants to slam her views but I just can't do it. It is pretty clear on FB what my political position is and she still contacts me so I will TRY to do the same.
  
• Reply #2 10/24/09  2:11pm
  
  live2win
  Lynn, I think that this is being experienced all over. The reasons are sort of complex, as I see it.
  
  First, this is not just about politics anymore. Many of the gorillas that have been sitting in the corner are now front and center. You could be friends with someone and not have to deal with their views on many things by avoiding them, but, really, at this point, is that really very possible?
  
  People have taken the stance that if you do not support, or speak badly of Obama, it is racism. That is hard to get away from. There are so many things being considered right now that people have brought down to that level, that it is less about politics, more about racial and ideological beliefs. The right is responsible for this and the left plays right into it.
  
  You are probably not anymore of one thing or another than you were, don't believe the hype. The fringes on both sides are trying to pick up steam, and that is causing this push to the center, and away from it. It is the measuring stick, not the views, that have changed. The people on the Right have to contend with the fundamentalists. How do they keep them , but appeal to the rest? That should be their problem, but the Left is helping so much. And the Left has to contend with its own problems. There is nothing new in the claims of communism and socialism, but what is new is that people are suddenly confused about what they want to admit. If you are for the public option, rather that reform to the insurnace/banking industry, you are willing to support a socialist solution to the problem. Nobody on either side wants to admit wherre they really stand, and by doing that, they will not reach out for solutions. Part of the problem is that the fringes are trying to find anything, any attitude or stand, that can draw the more centrist to them, or at least get them to loosen up on their disdain. And frankly, it seems that the Right is being more successful that the Left.
  
  We have come to a time, JMO, where we are accusing each other of not just having different or ridiculous views or values, but to where we are questioning the actual humanity of others. The Right says that the Left supports Communism and therefore supports the destruction of America and mass murder. The Left says that the Right supports the same but through other means. We seem to have forgotten that most people really love their families and friends and want what is best for them. Most people appreciate the relative freedoms we have and want to keep them. But by refusing to communicae based on that and then moving forward, that is, not questioning each others motives, and finding solutions, we stand and yell and nobody hears the other. If we argue about why someone thinks what they think, rather than trying to find common ground that we can work from, we play the game right along with the politicians. We just swing power back and forth and become a part of the problem.
  
  People who bash Glenn Beck and then say Keith Olberman is better, or people who bash Keith Olberman and then say Glenn Beck is better, what is the difference? It is that one says what someone wants to hear, wants to believe, wants validated. They are both performers, paid to get ratings. The truth is that if you listen to both, it is like living on two different planets, as though two different days happened. As long as we buy into that, and continue to deal with others in that way, there is not a chance that we will stand anything but totally divided. JMO
  
  
• Reply #3 10/24/09  3:51pm
  
  freeheeler
  I've listened to both Olberman and Beck and in my opinion, Olberman is far more truthful. He gives a far more balanced assessment of situations. Beck on the other hand is about as out there as anybody I've ever heard. The man is a true propagandist in the most dangerous form of the word.
  
  I'm left of center and pretty open about it. I do enjoy my status as a political Independent as I reserve my right to criticize the Democrats too when they deserve it.
  
  Regarding the Republicans however, I think they've gone so far off of the deep end that it'll take a major change for them to be seen as a major party again. Just 20% of Americans self identify as Republicans and that'll drop further with Rush and Beck running the party.
  
  It is funny, can anybody imagine the Republicans supporting any bill that would be beneficial to an average American? I just got a notice from a credit card company that I've done business with for a long time. They raised my rate to 30%. That's hillarious, they actually expect me to do business with them, really? Even worse, my own government doesn't protect me from usurous rates like that, really?
• Reply #4 10/24/09  3:55pm
  
  freeheeler
  RE old friends, yeah, as we're no longer civil to each other in society, our incivility has ebbed into personal relationships as well.
  
  Facebook is a potential bomb. I confronted an old friend, a very strong Christian no less, who called Obama the AntiChrist. I really shamed the guy and a few other old friends piled on. We gave him a really hard time for passing on such distortions. I also told about the times, as a state employee driving a state truck, when I've been physically attacked, even shot at once. I told him that spreading lies like that was going to get me or somebody like me, a low ranking, hard working federal employee, killed.
• Reply #5 10/24/09  4:06pm
  
  live2win
  Two things...first, I think it is a little problematic when we are discussing which person taht people amke the mistake of relying on for "news" is "more" truthful. That just has a funny ring to it.
  
  Second, as far as old friends go, the interesting thing is that where people live, what concerts they attend, what newspaper they read, what brand of clothes they wear, etc, often tells us alot. We have probably known, on some level, that we were not of the same mind. But that did not stop us from having work associations, childhood associations, whatever, and leaving the other out, as long as it wasn't in our faces. Unfortunately, a whole lot more in in our faces now, and we have to make decsions about what is important to us about each person. Live and let live seems to be undergoing a some revisions.
  
  
• Reply #6 10/24/09  6:55pm
  
  shevan
  Several things - live2win. I totally disagree with some, but not all of the things that you say. But There's no "funny ring" to ME, that some news stations are more truthful. I found several outright lies on Fox news in the last few days, I even made a thread out of one; it was about Sean Hannity. Look it up if you want - it is among the older threads here on PC. And it was a minor one, but it was so typical of Sean Hannity. It was an outright lie - he misquoted Obama, and you could prove it from Obama's taped/televised speech. It's common knowledge that Fox news lies and distorts. That is even in last week's Newsweek magazine - one of their columinists did an excellent column on the deceptions of Fox "news." The truth of the matter, is that MSNBC, Olbermann and Maddow, do not lie. They do have their opinions, sure, but they are fact-based. Fox news lies. Olbermann and Maddow back up their statments with news clips and videos - and they don't artfully "crop" them and take them out of context. Case in point - look at my thread, "Fox News 10 Most Egregious Lies"; one of the most outrageous ones is where they (Fox) had Biden in a video stating, "The fundamentals of our economy are strong." Just that short clip. When you saw the WHOLE clip from another source, he said, "Just the other day, McCain said, "The fundamentals of our economy are strong." See what they did? They left out the part where he said "McCain said"!! How dishonest is that??? It is conventional wisdom that Fox news is notorious for lying and distorting and isn't considered real news. As a former journalism major, I know that they don't report the news honestly OR obectively. No real journalist would do the things they do. The newsweek guy says the same.
  
  And as far as old friends go - I don't have friends that are Fox news junkies. What would we have in common? I am not as tolerant about that. I can't stay silent in the face of ignorance and racism. I do have a couple relatives like that - cousins - but my beloved Steve, I grew up with eating Thanksgiving and Christmas dinner, and cruising the local huge hamburger restaurant on Friday and Saturday nights in our teens, and I love him to death. We just don't discuss poltiics. Actually, you can't with him. If you disagree with him, he walks out of the house and leaves!
  
  I feel just like Freeheeler does. I especially resonate with his third paragraph. 20%!! The Republicans are having real problems now, and it is their vitriol, extremism and dishonesty that has caused this.
• Reply #7 10/24/09  7:31pm
  
  live2win
  FOX News lies by omission, distortion, and implying that commentary and opinion is fact. But almost all of the actual "facts" that they present check out.
  
  The question posed by nny was about feeling more to the left, and her friends.
  
  The fact is that when we have reached a point where we are arguing over news stations and who is "more" truthful, suggesting that none is actually to be trusted, that is a problem. Or rather, it is a problem when people will not admit that both MSNBC and FOX are offering news commentary. And the fact that what news station people watch is how things are being judged is why we have hit rock bottom in our communcations. When people feel a need to defend television personalities, who get paid alot to entertain, as in the case of Olberman and Beck, who both use entertainment as part of the persuasion tactic, is there any doubt as to why we are all turned around? Labeling people is so troublesome.
  
  So, again, I would just say that the measuring stick has changed, and the fringes who are creeping in from both sides are creating real havoc. People have to try to look past the hype. But in this world today, that is really hard to do, especially when people are yelling from the television. JMO
• Reply #8 10/24/09  7:49pm
  
  shevan
  I stand behind what I said. May I respectfully ask where you get your information that "...almost all of the actual "facts" that they (Fox) present check out." Can you supply a link for that? And if they checked out, "almost all", why is there that pesky link circulating around the internet about Fox's 10 most egregious lies (proven)?
  
  I wasn't responding to nnyl so much as to you - and I addressed you by name. I already said MSNBC offers opinion (your word, "news commentary - in your third paragraph) so it is not accurate that I think they never do (offer opinion). They report the news straight up, AND they offer opinion. I feel I was clear on that. If you feel I am a left wingnut - fringe - have you ever seen my views on immigration? I am a liberal, yes, but not an extremist ;)!
• Reply #9 10/24/09  8:23pm
  
  live2win
  I really was just responding to the post I saw from Lynn. I am not sure how I am now being asked to defend myself or post links, I thought this would be about the thread header. I am also not sure how any of this has to do with anyone but nny as she asked the question and nobody else was directly addressed here. Next time I will just message to her.
• Reply #10 10/24/09  9:00pm
  
  shevan
  Well, it is common practice here that if you present something that is not common knowledge, and someone challenges it, you provide a credible link for proof. Otherwise, anyone could say anything and think that is gospel truth!! Like Obama was born in Kenya, and isn't qualified to be the President ;)! What I have found, is that when you ask someone for a link, some of the responders (always new people, usually conservatives) take offense. It is modus operandi here. That is what happens in a true debate. And I don't understand your continued insistence that "...I was just responding to the post I saw from Lynn." In these topics, anyone can weigh in - on comments, as well as statements by Lynn - this thread was not restricted to just Lynn and what she said. You weighed in rather heavily, with a long post. It is common practice in all these groups that we comment on the topic, and we can all comment on what the commenters (like you) say, as well. That is why it is called a "group."
  
  Interesting username "live2win"! Enjoy your private conversation with Lynn!

This is a group that discusses the issues of the day from the progressive point of view. Debates are encouraged, but opinions based on ignorance, as I see fit, will be deleted, as well as people who spew them. This is a group where intellectualism is not looked down upon. So, be informed!