Sex / Pornography Addiction Support Group

Choose you have given me lots of Aha! moments, and i have messaged you privately over time about them.
I have always found your contributions to be helpful and sometimes too intelligent for me that i often have to re-read to get it, to get a handle on it. That would be a reflection of me, not you.

My personal issue, and I'm sure its my own, i struggle with some of your posts involving religion. I admire your passion, but I'm someone who grew up without any guidance in this area, and confess (meekly) to have never read a bible.
So alot of your wise words and references can get me lost in their translation, and i feel out of the loop, so don't comment (trying not to look like a dork).
And then sometimes i can see your references to the bible, and i wonder if they are just you searching for justiciation for your actions or feelings, but just don't feel qualified to comment, with my lack of religious knowledge....so leave it up to the US contingent to help.
So if my withdrawling from discussions is hurting your feelings i apolgise.....this is more a reflection of my own issues or lack of knowledge.
Mostly certain topics get picked up more in lively debates than others, because you can relate at the same time, or are going through the same thing at the same time, so you can comment confidently on the topic.
Sometimes i have a busy life and don't have the time to put in a proper response, and forget to get back to a topic.

Please don't take a personal affront, and please don't feel down, this is clearly a rough time for you....stay strong mate.

Whatever you do....DON"T LEAVE....i for one would miss you.

I think you know most of us well enough to know we would not give up a vigorous argument if we had something to say about it. My assumption is that most of those posts had run their course and everything that needed to be said was, either by you or previous posts.

I would definitely not take it as an offense, esp. considering that many of your posts can get pretty active. You've been a constant on this board, and one that many of us spouses turn to for sound advice considering SA matters. If we thought any less, you would definitely know it. =)

Thank you both for your thought and much needed encouragement as I trudge through this little valley of mind.

Something very interseting is happening. I read your posts and were surprised that you connected with my sense of rejection. Because I do not feel rejected at all by this. Then I read my post again. And there it was clear as day I am wearing my rejection on my sleve.

I guess this skirmish is about teaching me to listen, becuase I am beginning to see my reflection in how others are reacting to me rather than believing what I feel all the time.

interesting.

Choose I am brand new to this forum (just last night). I had to write a letter to my husband about 'taking sex off the table' for a while so, well I don't know why, I just know that I can't be sexually intimate within him right now. 5 weeks since d-day and a revelation of a long sexual addition. It's all just a lot to process. I sent the letter yesterday and he needs time to process all of this. My obvious concern was/is how my withholding is going to affect him in light of his new discovery about his SA; this isn't just about me. Early this morning I read one of your posts about sex addition not being about sex, etc. and a huge light went off for me. I realize that God (we are both Christians) wants to use this season of sexual abstinence for me, but also for him. Sex has been the idol in his life, the thing he turned to meet his unmet emotional needs. This thing is a giant and I felt like yeah I can pray and stand against this thing for his sake. For our sake too of course, but it ticks me that he's been under the weight of this thing for so many years. Anyway, I wrote to say that I don't know about all of those other posts, but I really got a lot of insight from what you have written. I am just learning and need all the help I can get. Thanks

Honestly Choose, and i'll agree with Trina a bit here and use some of my own rhetoric, offensive it may be, but i can't stand bible thumpers personally. If deep religion is your thing then by all means, so be it. However, it's pretty confusing at times to find out what your point is in a conversation because you're throwing around scripture like a teenager at a tp party.

Also, maybe for whatever reason, you feel you need to se a response to whatever it is you replied when just maybe you simply had the final word or thought ?

Hurting, Welcome. Though I am in the tall weeds right now, I want to encourage you in your fight for freedom, and encourage you to trust the strength, hope, and healing that the people here can share with you. I hope you feel safe enough to really share your heart, and connect with both SOs and SAs who share your pain and their own versions of your stories.

I also encourage you to encourage your husband to come here too. It is a very powerful thing to see couples like Sober and LoriLou share their views onthe same subjects as they work through them. I hope my beautiful wife will find that place someday.

Ok so about your letter. There are lots of reasons we try to interpret the bible to fit our needs. But you and I know that Faith is believing the bible is true insipte of our circomstances, like this insidious addiction, our feelings, like being betrayed or rejected by our spouses, or culture which says too may things wrong about this whole sexuality thing.

So, what the bible says is not to withhold due benevolence from your partner except for a time of prayer and fasting, and then only for a certain time and only by mutual agreement. Before you react, let me say that now is probably a good time for you both to go to the Cross in prayer and fasting for healing in this addiction and abstain TOGETHER from sex. And I agree with you that when sex is an idol. And I know that oh so well, that all the sex our wives can give us does not satisfy that beast.

But at the same time, you must consider that the divinely created connection that sexuality in one flesh has the potential to help in the process of healing and seperating sexualy in the wrong way can cause a correlary amount of damage.

Let me explain with two stories. My "Barnabus" (peer) in this fight had a long term affiar and several sexual encourters during his marriage. I on the other hand exclusively acted out with anonymous oral sex with men. I knew it was progressing when I found myself facing the beginnings of an emotional connection with another woman. This shocked me into recovery. The years of acting out the other way did not.

There are other factors in this like trust, communication, and emotional maturity, but in these stories i am focusing on abstinance.

In comparing our stories, my wife, in part becuase of her own positive self esteem, part because I did not breach most sexual behaviors with my acting out like intercourse, she has been my partner sexually during all of my recovery. Except for a couple of weeks immidately after my disclosure.

My partners wife on the other hand was not available sexually for about a year. As I watched the dynamics of this, I realized that I had a much easier time facing the basic stuff becuase I had "methadone" in the form of my wife. He took months longer than I with each epyphany. He had to work much harder at every step, every disclosure.

So many months went by eaking our salvation out in this. Then when I hit the wall and began to (and contiune to struggle with my sobriety) was when I began to run into my wife's woundedness in ways other than sex that made her unavailable for intimacy, NOT SEX, but intimacy.

Her fears, her walls. And this new level of disconnected lonliness plus other career stresses, hit me in a way I was not equipped to deal with. So back to the addiction I went.

In the thread, "SA issue or everyones Issue", Cali replied, "We SOs know it is impossible to satisfy our SAs sexually."

This is very true, noone but God can satisfy our addicts. But amaizingly when I read this line almost a year ago. I read it like this;

"We SOs know how important it is to satisfy our SAs sexually."

This at the time was I think an interpretation that both Cali and my wife had made a committment to be available to their husbands and reconsumate their covenant marriages by visiting the marriage bed often.

No matter how much arguement I get on this point. I am telling you my wife's affirmations sexually during this time was extremely helpful. And the reason was not about the orgasm. It was about the message, "I love you, where you are, inspite of your sin, and because I respect your RIGHT male sexuality, I am going to be here in this way for you to meet that need."

it is a great and mysterious thing that we can be so screwed up sexually and at the same time being sexual with our wives, is holy, correct, pure and healing.

The sexuality in the marriage bed have nothing to do with my addiction!!! They are two different things entirely. One is in the presence of God the other seperates me from God. There are times when my sin and her sin impacts this holy place, and what I am hearing you ask is will abstinance do this. Is it sin. The answer depends on two factors, mutuality, and limited time. Just like the scripture says.

I can not go to the Cross by myself. If my wife is not with me, then it is not complete. It is not whole because we are one. My sin and my wife's sin disconnects us from each other and from God.

"I had to write a letter to my husband about 'taking sex off the table' for a while so, well I don't know why, I just know that I can't be sexually intimate within him right now. 5 weeks since d-day and a revelation of a long sexual addition. It's all just a lot to process"

That is a very good I statement. You taking responsiblity for what you need. And this is very good. And your husband should support you in your need to go triage your wounds and stop the bleeding by respecting your need to abstain by agreeing to it because it is what you need.

"I realize that God (we are both Christians) wants to use this season of sexual abstinence for me, but also for him. Sex has been the idol in his life, the thing he turned to meet his unmet emotional needs."

This can only be true if it lines up with the bible. You I and everyone easily hear our own flesh, fear and wounds tell us that God is speaking to us.

I suggest that if he agree that a time of abstinance is what God is saying to him, too, even if he is deathly afraid of the idea, then it is from god. If he is not in agreement, or at least is not prayerfully considering it as God speaking to him through you, then it is you not God speaking to you on this. If the bible is true, then It must be agreed mutually and a time limit set.

My therapist said I should abstain completely for a while early in recovery. I was obviously scared as hell. Since sex was my most important need, and of course I would die without it. I brought it to my wife. She said it was radical, like a cult thing. We were not in accord. This actually bothered me for a long time because I read so much about how beneficial abstinance could be. I was even mad at her for not agreeing. But because she did not agree. I did not abstain. Because the bible is true. Regardless of how I feel.

if I asked her now, she would probably pray and agree. Beceause she knows there is healing in the Holy Spirit's directing us together.

Read this next paragraph 2x before you give up in your reaction.

How will it affect your husband. If it is unilatterally your decision, he may act out during this time of abstinance because that scripture says, "because of your lack of self control". His addict will react to the rejection and lack of affirmation this unilateral decision piles onto him, Or he will fight like hell without your help to not act out. Ultimately if it is unilateral, it will make little difference in your forgiveness or his recovery.

But, If he agrees with you on this from his heart, and it may take time and several discussions for him to understand your needs, and to get brave enough to face it, then it will be a powerful time where the Holy Spirit can blow a cool clensing breese of fresh air through the temple of your two hearts and your marriaage.

My point is oneness. Not sex. If my wife said to me. I want to abstain from sex for 3 months, but I during that time, I want to spend 30 miinutes kissing and making out on the front poarch every day, I want to go on date night 2 time a week, I want to share 2 afformations every day with you, and I want us to pray every night together. I would say Hot Diggity Dog! Lets do it! The reason is because those things are far more sexual than dragging disconnected hurt, fear, and brokeness into bed.

The problem is this. Some part of your need to seperate from him is your pain, your broken sense that you are not worthy because you got betrayed. You just got told that your whole reality was wrong and everything about your life is completely out of control. This abstinance will help you get back in control again.

All those feelings are extremely real and true, and accurate. But the answer is not to seperate from the other part of you. You are one. And weather you feel it or not does not change that it is not within your control. Even if you jump and divorce him, that will not change the fact that you are one with him.

To help undrestand that it is not about he sex, but that the disconnection of abstinace can be dangerous, What will you do instead of sex to crank UP your current level of connection MORE with him. Will you study sexual addiction and discuss it objectively with him. Will you greet him at the door with a 5-year old daughters enthusiasm that he is home? Will you commit to using words to affirm his goodness as a husband in the ways he does succeed every day. Will you touch him in public more? Will you kiss him more? Will you flirt with him more? Will you pray more for and with him? Will you commit to therapy with him or by yourself more?

How will you follow through with your vow to hold him in sickness while you are seperated sexually from him?

I just ask these things, because any of those things I listed, can easily fill my unmet emotinal needs just enough to strenghen my resolve to continue crawling my bloody wounded broken body closer to the Cross.

Once again I am telling you SOs that you ARE our helpmeets, and if your not helping, we get our asses kicked. This is not an excuse not to fight with every breath to get and stay sexually pure to glorify God, but it is easier to loose alone than with our foxhole partner covering our backs.

So, brass tacks; Convince him (compassionately and respectfully with gentle tone) to agree to the abstinance, if you can not convince him reconsider it. Unless he is abusing you sexually, being availalbe to him in conflict with your feelings is proper and not going to hurt you. Your obedience will be blessed. He will have to deal with his sin of not living with you in an undersanding way. Buy am I going to get if for that one!

And set a specific amount of time. Re-negotiate later if necessary, but do the abstinance together so that God is in charge of it, not you, or your husband or especially the enimy.

Good luck. This addiction is probably the meanest toughtest most gruling battle we could endure, except for maybe the killing fields of Cambodia or Oushwitz, but those who have been forgiven much love much. Imagine how beautiful your husband will be when he gets to the other end of this and can humbly lift other men up to purity and actually heal this through Gods strength working in his weakness. That is where you are going. Don't take the bate your current circomstances are offering.

sorry Long haul, You wrote about hating bible thumpers while I was writing my bible thumping thingie.

And thank you, I was just not giving myself permission that it could be simply that I did have the last word or thought?

"but i can't stand bible thumpers personally." Why is that. As a bible thumper I am not at all offended. I am however, very concerned that the church seems to really do things poorly in alot of ways, so I am really curious why you feel that way?

Trina, is not animous, she is respectfully sharing our differences in belief. I even sense a form of resepect and openness to consider the Bible is true sometime in the future. I hope the insites I get from my beliefs are helpful enough and maybe help others believe.

I also hope that those "sometimes" that I use the bible to justify my bad behaviors, are few and far between and that hypocracy does not hurt anyone here. I also hope that when these seeming justifications are actually biblical truths that God will use my words to help heal others.

No matter how much arguement I get on this point. I am telling you my wife's affirmations sexually during this time was extremely helpful. And the reason was not about the orgasm. It was about the message, "I love you, where you are, inspite of your sin, and because I respect your RIGHT male sexuality, I am going to be here in this way for you to meet that need."


I reread that and wanted to clearify. I do not mean, respecting my right TO MALE SEXUALITY.

I mean respecting My god given design as a male who is hardwired with an appitite for sex, intended to drive me to pursue my wife. RIGHT, PROPER male sexuality.

Choose
Thank you so much for your reply. You have said a lot and I will probably respond in more than one reply because you said a lot and it has also stirred too many questions to address in one reply. I will take to heart the things you said about abstinence being ‘for a time, and ‘mutually agreed upon.’ The fact is that my husband and I have always been very sexual with each other and neither one of us (especially him) will live a long-term abstinent life. If it came down to me being unable or unwilling to be sexual with him long-term he would push for divorce. I have never been and will not be the woman who withholds sex as punishment. Not that I want to, but he would never live in a sexless marriage.
After the initial shock of ‘the letter’ he actually was very understanding to what my needs are. He agreed, but did he really ‘agree,’ that I need to explore with him more. Does he see it as mutually beneficial? I don’t know. The fact is that both of us want our marriage to improve and our intimacy on all levels to improve as well. And since our ‘argreement’ I have already begun to think of ways to express intimacy on other levels which I had not done in the past and I hope he is doing the same. I want to be part of the solution for him and I believe he wants to be part of the solution for me as well.
On one level I get how SA is not about sex but on another level I don’t get it. I believe that he has for years used me sexually to meet the ‘need’ that has nothing to do with love, intimacy and affection toward me because having sex with your wife is the acceptable justifiable form of release for his other unmet needs. How is it different? If he is unable to deal with stress, rejection or whatever else has driven him to ‘act out’ and my being there is an ‘acceptable’ fix, how is that different? He has told me when we are together he doesn’t use porn. Now how much he masterbates during our living together years, I don’t know. I know that in the past if our circumstances ever prevented us sexually (work schedules, etc), or if I ‘rejected’ his sexual advances whether justifiable or not he would get angry (at me) and masterbate. His sexual needs have never been totally satisfied. If we had sex 7 days a week, he’d want 8, and so on. No amount was ever enough. Satisfying yes, for the moment, but never really deeply satisfying don’t know much but doesn’t the SA and the acting how inhibit true intimacy with someone else. Isn’t that part of what’s its about – the isolation and inability to connect intimately with someone else. Let’s face it. Men can have sex without being emotionally connected, right, not that I am saying that is the preferred way. That’s how I feel it’s been with us for years. I have been emotionally shutout and neglected-it definitely affects sexually intimacy for me. . I don’t get it? And how can that have nothing to do with sex? Please enlighten if you can I really want to know.

Choose: What does this mean, "and because I respect your RIGHT male sexuality"? I fail to understand, can you explain?