Sex / Pornography Addiction Support Group

I think I know the post to which you are referring, and I believe undoubtedly that there is a direct relation to the way we see ourselves and our ability to step out there and be available to the addictive activities. Kind of like any other thing...we MAKE the addiction set apart and different - it isn't. It has all the same components of any other situation in life, it is simply played out differently.

I'll try to explain from my (female SA) perspective. If I am dressed in a swaetshirt, sweatpants, a ball cap, and no makeup....I do not even carry myself the same as if I am in that slimming black dress, off-black hose...those cute heels I bought just for this dress...hair all flat-ironed and sleek...make-up just so. I feel like I am attractive, and I act accordingly. I think we all do...SAs and non-SAs...we all act how we feel we appear to the world. Beauty, after all, is in the eye of the beholder. So, that this guy who seems to be confident in himself, although not necessarily attractive to you, but obviously attractive to someone, well...when he feels attractive, he will carry himself differently...confidently...and in turn, he will behave with the confidence to make the play...take the chance.

I do see a correlation in how we see ourselves and how we present ourselves. I believe when it was mentioned that a husband basically lets himself be in less-than-prime physical shape because he feels less attractive, therefore less likely to act on impulses - we have to believe him, and accept that, for him at this time, he is making a wise choice.

It is intriguing though, how...is this a step in recovery..or a stall in it?

I think there is some truth to the point you are trying to make, CaliMommy. A man without a whole lot of self-confidence is not likely to go out somewhere, pick up a woman and have an affair. However, he may feel comfortable enough to start an online chat with a woman where there is a little more anonymity. That man can then progress from chat, to video chat, to eventually meeting that woman in real life. That type of relationship is, in my opinion, is more dangerous because starting with chatting first brings about an emotional attachment to the woman. You also said that your husband is just not confident enough to pursue an affair. I think a lack of confidence can make a man more vulnerable to an affair. If a man doesn't feel confident, but a woman pays attention to him, that increases his confidence. He likes the extra confidence that he never had and pursues the relationship even more. You know how a guy likes his ego stroked. If he never had that attention before, it is very intriguing to him and he wants to pursue it more.

Now on a more personal level:
When I first got married, I felt confident that I would never cheat on my wife....especially, never have sex with another woman. It's not that I didn't have the confidence, it's just that I care too much for my wife , and my value system growing up too. However, as I got into porn, I came across stories, pictures, and videos of affairs. I became desensitized to it. I also started chatting with women online and flirting with them.on cam. I have even placed ads and responded to them on craigslist..although nothing ever came of it (Thank God!). I've noticed this scary progression in me even though I was sure that I wouldn't give in to an affair. I haven't, gone as far as going to a woman's house and having sex and with God's help, as I seek sobriety, I pray that I will never have an affair. But I also pray that God will change my heart so that i don't even think about having an affair either.

Cali, This is a very good topic, and I need alot of work in this area.

Here are several unfiltered thoughts that I want to punch out then talk about.Unsensored means not necessarily true, just things I am thinking about.

First you have to be pretty attractive physically for your wife or anyone else to WANT to give you oral sex.

Second, when you feel attractive it does boost confidence. In my case, it changes the way I acted out. The correlary is also true. When I feel unattractive, I am more likely to go for the physical fix than the emotional fix. i.e. anonymous sex rather than picking us someone to act out with.

Thinking our unattractive dulls your willingness to take the risk of being rejected by pursuing your spouse to avoid the rejection. Especially when you have no validation that they think your attrracive.

First topic, the desire for a man (part of which is your attraction to him) translating into initiative, williingness to do things that they want like oral sex, wanting to devour them.

When I was in the Marine Corps, I was cut and lean. Though my think has always been oral sex, I acted out with women during that time instead of in anonymous book stores with men. The reason I think this is the case is two fold. First, women are willing to do more for attractive lean men in Marine Corps Dress Blue uniforms than the same short fat balding ugly guy. But those things don't really matter to a sex addict that likes to give oral sex anonymously. Which by the way amaizes me. Even though I know how the other side works all to well. I would guess my wife would be more attracted to that Marine than she is to me.

(Hmm, maybe all of my issues would be solved if I just got back into my Dress Blues for my wife. ;-)

Anyway, my point is that when I feel un attractive, undesireable, and such, then my addict tells me that my self loathing is accurate, and makes me want to act out. And this happens in the face of less desire from my wife. She is less attracted and so less interested or willing to follow through with desiring me.

Now I am not saying that actual physical attraction is as much of an issue than attitude. For example, Mockingbirds example of feeling attactive and having guys galk and talk about her because she is lean and tan, probably was not near as attractive to those guys than the attitude she expressed when she turned toward them to show them that she agreed with them and was attractive. These attitudes is more attractive than our physical bodies.

Being physically fit, is attractive in and of itself, but not enough to overcome a bad attitude.

So, in the ideal world, I would want to be attractive for my wife's benefit, because it pleases her, because it makes her feel sexy to be with fit healthy confient guy. And if she is available to backfill those positive things in the relationship, like oral sex in my case, then it would be alot safer to go out into the world carying that Dress Blues confidence and thwarting off the women who have and would respond because I would never risk what I have at home for what she was offering. But I do not llive in an ideal world.

In my world, I can believe the truth is somewhere between that my wife is not respulsed by my appearance, and apperance is not that important to her. My being healty enough to stay alive long enough to go to my kids weddings is more important than how attracted she is to me. So, mediocraty is OK.

This thought crosses my mind alot. If I worked out and got to washboard ab level, her willingness to deal with my addiction would not change, so there would be no positive affect on our relationship because of this physical improvement. But what would happen is that women out there whould respond to my addict more, and I would begin to rationalize that acting out with these women would meet my broken needs better than the anonymouse same-sex.

And since this whole process of circular thinking is about me blaming my wife for my acting out. It is not an improvement on where I am now, so why bother.

Now if my wife told me that she would rather me act out with women than men, because it is less disturbing to her, then maybe I would take that into consideration for her benefit. But since that is the same thing as a SO telling a cocain addict that she would rather him get high at home because at least then she would know he was safe. Its all wacked out sicko, so why bother.

Finally, because I am currently in the tall weeds, and all over my wife's side of the fence, if getting in shape improved the amount of desireability my wife expressed toward me, I think that would make it easier to fight the battle, but since that is not going to happen, or at least not enough to counter the positive responses out in the world, its really not worth it.

Isnt that intersting how my wife's unavailability to respond to something like this actually negatively affects (NOT CAUSED, but affects) my health. To deny that we can not unlock our partners potential by stepping up to the game is pertty sad.

I think what I am saying is that being attractive is just one way we fulfill our need to be desired. And if that need isnt being met, then becoming attractive just as easily feeds the addiciton.

It is very close to rape victims being over weight in an attempt to avoid attracting predators.

My h's low self esteem has always been an issue for him and us. He has never felt worthy of certain things, or as good as other people. His addiction has fed off this kind of thinking and thrived.
He grew up the eldest of 6, father always absent emotionally and working 3 jobs, and a mother who was frustrated and finds sport in playing people's feelings against one another, or telling you you could do better (in his eyes this meant, everything was not good enough)
His first sexual relationship was with a married women who tricked him and said she was single, who i think was a SA, and used and abused him, him 20 and her 25 years. He fell in love, and she just wanted sex, and he still carries much shame about that 25 years later.
He has always pushed away people, and never lets people get close, for fear they will find out the truth.....that he is bad or not worthy. Frustrates the hell out of me!!!
Although he is getting better as he goes through recovery, those feelings are still there. Its that negative self talk, that led his addiction for many years. He has said he would never had had an affair, i think that to be true, as he wouldn't have the confidence to pull it off.
His visits to a brothel, were very much a part of his sexual acting out in escalation. He justified it in his mind that those people (the prostitutes) are as bad as him, or morally in the gutter as him, so he had the confidence to pull that off. Didn't need the confidence to approach them or chase them, they are just waiting and ready.
I can recognise that this negative self talk is dangerous to him in recovery, as is he, and this is what he works on with his therapist still. I am also aware that if he doesn't get a handle on this, it may one day lead him back down the wrong road. But am healthy enough in my own recovery to know i just can't do anything about it anymore, he is in control of this, and i can't stress about this, but deal with it if that ever presented itself.

I'm sure self esteem does play a big role with the SA for a lot of the reasons stated here, the first and foremost being that men (and women as well) who are SA's do want to look their best in order to be more desireable to find a sex partner. Then again on the other hand, with all of the online resources out there such as craigslist, adult friend finder.com and so many others, a person can "tailor meet" their potential flings that may like obese partners or what not.

For myself, one of the biggest problems in my marriage was the lack of intimacy. We battled constantly about it. I kept having to ask her if she found me attractive, ANY reasons for her lack of a sex drive. I'm a very sexually agressive person and unfortunately i allowed that to dominate in my mind. So we seperated (i left) for just over a year.

During that time i had my share of casual dates and enjoyed what i THOUGHT was the good life. I went onto the sites and found women who liked "overly muscular" men or the powerlifter types.

It wasn't long before i saw how unhappy i really was and how much i still loved my wife. After a death in my family and her concern for me, we decided to try to start over again and have been happyily working on it for 6 months now :)

Now for her, i had to put my addiction aside as she told me that it would be some time before she felt comfortable enuf for us to be intimate again and she also insisted that i get my blood tested. I didn't blame her at all. She put on some considerable weight as well during the seperation while i'm on the fast track to being healthier.

I assured her that everything was up to her in terms of getting back into shape and that i loved her no matter what. I even had the discipline to sleep with her while not being intimate and just enjoy holding each other. It was diving me NUTS but i did it lol and she later confessed that she had to hold back many times also ;oP

Well, a couple weeks ago i finally got my blood results, clean as a whistle and so (without embarassing her in case she reads this lol) we had a wonderful weekend together !!

Sorry if i got off point here a bit lol but my bottom line is that i don't think self esteem plays TOO high a factor in the possibility of SA's finding partners or cheating or whatever, because altho it's easier for women to get laid (pardon the french) there are MANY places that a man can go to find exactly what he's looking for.

I do howver believe that it's always a good idea to reassure your partner just how much you're attracted to them. I mean come on, who DOESN'T like that ? Shit, i'm in the gym as i type this and here 6 days a week. I look around every day and see a place FULL of men and women trying to look better for the opposite sex lol If you know and watch body language and peoples eyes....most gyms are just huge meat markets lol hot, sweaty, pumped and tight bodies ?? lol...no wonder this is my second home :)

My boyfriend of six years is a SA. He throughout our relationship had low self-esteem. He didn't like the way he looked ect. He always thought people must think why is such a hot woman with such an ugly man. He put me on this high pedestal and him on a low one. Even with his low self-esteem he still cheated on me several times. He always said the women were less attractive than me. It's strange to me and always has been that he would think he's not good enough for me. I don't think I'm as attractive as he makes me out to be. He is an attractive guy and I think his lack of self-esteem is what made him want to cheat, instead of just using porn like for years he did.

If you will remember, in "Out of the Shadows," Dr. Pat Carnes wrote about how often other addictions will also be present in the sex addict. One such addiction that is commonly seen is eating disorders. People are either anorexic or obese. Both often result from sexual abuse. (I'm too sexy so I'll make myself skinny and then no one will want me or abuse me. Or, I'm too handsome. If I become morbidly obese, no one will find me attractive anymore and I won't have to worry about being abused again).

For the sex addict, it seems to me that good looks will raise the level of self-confidence and self-esteem, and therefore result in more affairs since they won't fear putting themselves out there. Rejection is fairly unlikely. Being overweight or anorexic, or "dressing down" will affect the addict's negative opinion of themselves and make an affair far less likely.

One final point, please. Every single sex addict or partner I've ever met has had some very major self-esteem issues. I have suggested to many people on this site that they get hold of a book titled, "How To Raise Your Self-Esteem," by Nathaniel Brandon, Ph.D.. In my opinion, low self-esteem in THE NUMBER ONE mental health issue in the U.S. today. So many problems grow from this issue. And raising it back up to where it should be is so very, very simple. Brandon's book provides a perfect prescription for doing so. Yet very few individuals ever take even the first step towards addressing this issue. How sad!

Charlie, I will read the book.

For the sex addict, it seems to me that good looks will raise the level of self-confidence and self-esteem, and therefore result in more affairs since they won't fear putting themselves out there. Rejection is fairly unlikely. Being overweight or anorexic, or "dressing down" will affect the addict's negative opinion of themselves and make an affair far less likely.

Did you say this backwards, or is there no hope? or both?

I would think that good, i.e. helathy looks and the ensuing increase in self-confidence and self-esteem in recovery would improve healthy relationship, not just make acting out easier because there is more opportunity. I would also think that low-self esteem obesity and a low opinion all seem to drive the addict toward not away from affiars because longhaul is right there is no lack of opportunity.

This one hits home for me, b/c the way you describe you husband, is the way I feel about myself. My wife thinks I'm extremely handsome and good looking, but it is so hard for me to believe it. Same as your husband, I've had a stressful relationship with my mom and I too have not had a good male role model. This place where this hits me is through the online chatting I do. I believe myself to be so un- good looking if that's even a word, I get addicted to the online aspect, b/c no one in their right mind would think I'm attractive, so I lie about how I look, b/c I don't like the way I look.

Self esteem plays a huge part in our addiotion, it thrives off that one part of us that we don't like about ourselves and that's what drives us to act out and afterwards we we have acted out, our self esteem drops even lower. It is such a vicious process, it is amazing that any of us get through it.

The way I've seen to up the esteem, is to take happiness away in those little victories we get, such as getting through our goals of not acting out, or making the right choice when we really want to give in to our addiction, no matter how much it hurts us.

Lastly, always be supportive of your husband, your support means the most to him and will help him through his tough times. Good luck and keep fighting.

Somehow I feel relatively sure that if my H felt he was more attractive (sexually) that he might have gotten into more trouble than he already has. So, I don't feed his ego anymore. That seems like a recipe for more disaster. And I've had quite enough of that to last for this lifetime. I feel he kept me around only to feed his ego, while he decimated mine.

I know that after finding his obsession many years ago that I almost completely quit caring about any sexual attractiveness I might have. I think that it was just humiliating to even think of trying to interest him at that point. What a ridiculas idea.

And, I didn't want to feel too very attractive to others either. Although that happened anyway, even though I didn't actively persue it. Meaning that I got flirted with a lot anyway. I find that equally ego boosting and degrading at the same time. Inner conflict. Not comfortable.

I always found that it made me angry when someone flirted with me, as if I were a bad person. The ring on my finger means that I'm married. And to flirt with me anyway means that the person doing the flirting thinks I'm immoral and a two-timer. That disturbs me and I don't like it.

Also I feared persuing sexual attractivenss was dangerous. I'm not sure how to name that fear. Maybe that someone else might crash my defenses where infidelity is concerned. And, were I ever to do that for any reason whatsoever, even though he deserved it, I would HATE me. I thought it quite enough to hate him. So, I do feel that on my side of the fence, attractiveness is something I don't care to entertain, on any level at all.

Matter of fact, sex scares the H out of me now. I find that I frequently wish that I had no interest in sex whatsoever, because it just places me square in the path of emotional pain. Not something very attractive to me at this point.