Sex / Pornography Addiction Support Group

I find it interested how, as you're going along working your program, new and oftentimes very subtle aspects of your addictive behaviors will be revealed to you. For me, what I learned was how my Apparently Irrelevant Decisions (A.I.D.) could get me in trouble. I'd be heading out to my daughter's house to see my grand kids, and there would be different way I could go to get there. I somehow "unconsciously" choose to take a route that took my right by the home of a women I used to act out with. Now how did that happen? I haven't thought of this woman in years, and I certainly have no interest in renewing our relationship. I just need to be aware of the fact that I am an addict. Therefore, I need to guard my thoughts and keep very close watch on every single decision I make.

That sounds like what's going on with you, Soberone... You weren't "consciously" engaging in grooming behavior, but this addiction is "cunning, baffling, and powerful" and you can get caught up in things before you know what hit. I still find it exciting when a piece of the puzzle that is my life falls into place like that. It's always one of those "Aha!" moments, and it tells me that God is still watching over and protecting me. Congratulations on your new insight//awareness!

(Actually, that's what recovery is really all about for me, awareness).

One of the fellows I've known in the recovery program for years makes a deliberate effort to stay aware by using something called "Mindfulness Meditation". This process is taught by a guy named Jon Kabat-Zinn. This process is nothing far out or mystical, but rather a focused form of meditation that is very easy to use. Kabat-Zinn teaches this process all across the country in places such as Omega Institute in upstate New York and The Crossing in Texas. I know he has audio and video tapes of his presentations available. And he is constantly giving talks on the process all over the country. You could Google his name to learn more about he and his course.

Thankyou for sharing that, and your honesty. I really learn from these types of statements.
It is indeed an ongoing struggle. And insight into how helpful a polygraph can be on helping you stay on track for recovery success.

Early in recovery, i was encouraging my h to get fitter and feel proud of himself, to help with his low self esteem. My h said to me, he delibrately stayed overweight, so women wouldn't find him attractive, and he wouldn't then be tempted. He was scared of what may happened.
This floored me, and almost himself because even he seemed unaware he did it until he said it!
The power of the unconsciousness!!

That is really informative, Sober. What I love about both of you and Lorilou is your utter transparency and committed desire to grow in all circumstances.

Thank you for sharing.

Trina - that is so interesting about D. =) However, it it actually the power of the subconsciousness. If it were the unconsciousness, he'd be in a coma or dead. Haha!

Yeah your right, thanks Cali.
I knew that...that'll teach me for typing at 12.15am on a Sunday night!!

Sober, thanks for this. I know the power of the accountability software, and how in mine and several of my Band of Brothers it has been a silver bullet to stay out of the stuff. I am wondering if looking forward to a poligraph might provide that sort of accountability for every astpect of my recovery.

Unfortunately, and somewhat painfully right now, my wife saying, "Go ahead, but I dont what to have anything to do with that." pretty much deflates the whole conversation... for now.

Regarding your "grooming" boundaries. I would like to regail a story that set my boundaries regarding women pretty firmly and safely.

The summer before last I had to test my pool water daily to get our new clorinator right. I went to a new pool store where there was a very skiply, open and happy college girl alone working there. We politely talked while she tested my water. Out of my zeel for my early recovery, I with what seemed good intentions to me at the time, inappropriately suggested that she consider what her dress did to men. That though she thought that sexy is attractive in a non-sexual way, men typically react lustfully. The message was reasonable. The situation was not.

Needless to say, later that afternoon, the store manager called me and asked me not to come back to the store, or they would call the police becuase they had the right to reffuse service to anyone.

My first reaction was to be defensive, but my second reaction was to change my boundaries. Billy Grahm will not be alone in any situation AT ALL with any woman other than his wife. I decided the same was appropriate for me.

The exceptions are my daughters, my mom, and my female therapist. (which is safe, but I sometimes consider).

Then six months later, a client innocently shut her office door and sat down to start a meeting with me. Without a word I got up, opened the door about 4 inches, sat down and began to work. This simple act clearly shot her trust, and my credibility through the roof.

My point is this. It is pretty hard to groom anyone when you will not allow yourself to be in a situation where sexualizing the interaction is being watched by lots of people.

My wife complained all the time about my "familiarity" with women like waitresses and coworkers. I bucked this concern for a while because my disarming humor is actually an asset in breaking the ice in appropriate situations, but grooming in inappropriate situations.

So, after some work, the boundary became, one and only one joke. So, I can break the ice with an engaging comment or joke, but I can not start a dialogue, regardless of their reaction. It is very similar to the second look idea.

This change in behavior has actually provided some benefit to both of us. Now, that she trusts that the conversation will not go past my ice breaker, she actually relaxes into using my icebreaking personality to start the interaction, and then she takes the ball and is more comfortable being open and genuine with peopel we meet. This never happened before. She was always down right antisocial in most public situations. And why wouldnt she be. Her husband was flirting right in front of her face.

So, anyway, congratulations, and.... thanks for opening the idea up for me again.

I hadn't really thought about this, until now. I have had conversations with my therapist about it - he knows and he has an explanation, of sorts. Trina said something about her husband's keeping weight on to remain less attractive to other women, and it made me think.

Remember I was 12, okay? But, before the rape...I mean a week prior, I had talked to this guy along the road. It is where I first met him, and I was horribly lonely. He was actively grooming me, but I had no idea. I just believed him, lock, stock, and barrel. He asked me, in an effort for me to "prove I was old enough for him", to show him my breasts. I was 12, but I had breasts. I so desperately wanted him to keep liking me, to continue being interested, without hesitation (except to check for other motorists) I pulled up my top and my bra in one movement, and showed him my breasts. He never tried to touch me, or to do anything at all. He just wanted to see.

Fastforward to this past summer. I was at the beach and had kind of fallen into a deep drowse-state. I was hearing men's voices behind me, but closeby. They we making comments in a man-to-man locker-room kind of way...and I realized it was me they were talking about. I actually moved, like I was still asleep, but moved where the thing they were talking about was more visible. It was because I was in better physical shape than I had been in a long while...flat tummy, tanned...I felt good about how I looked.

My point is, if I had been overweight, white and pasty...if I hadn't felt like I looked good, I would have reacted differently. I responded to them and their talk because the talk itself, and my impression of how I looked allwed me to act out in a way I never would otherwise.

I am a moral and careful woman. I have boundaries and abide by them...except then. I allowed the level of underess one naturally has at the beach, and the talk, and my own self-image cloud how I behaved. I felt horribly giulty (another way I know I was wrong)...and I confessed to my therapist. He linked it to the rape...the grooming..and the fact that I learned after the rape that my body was a thing that would get me what I wanted...attention of men.

So, conversely, that a man would intentionally remain in a less-than-ripped physique, because it has an impact on how women respond to him - I get that.

And the open-door policy, it is perfect! No man who wants to be legally safe with a woman will ever allow a door to be closed...or, if, like in the case of a pastor or for privacy-like situations...well, when our church hired our pastor, he insisted the door to his office be removed and a half glass door be placed instead of the heavy wooden one. The reason....never to be behind a closed door with a woman. It is smart.

Is this polygraph on a computer program? I haven't heard of this before. I think it is the best way to remain true to yourself even. I agree with your assessment. I took a polygraph years ago in a work situation where someone had stolen some jewelry from the Department store where I worked. He asked a question if I had ever stolen anything from a store....all I could think of was the candybar I took when I was in the 3rd grade. I asked him if that would count. He made me say yes or no, but later let me explain. I had been asked specifically about that store, so he already knew I wasn't the theif. Bottomline, our fear that a unknown, or subconcious indiscretion will find us out makes these kinds of events happen. I am glad the two of you figured it out and discussed it. That is healthy. That is smart.

Grooming, as the victim. I was sodomized by an 8th grader 4 years older than myself. This went on for several weeks, and I remember more about my reactions and my relationship with my parents and the school than with my abuser. But I have always questioned how he groomed me. Why me. How was I a safe target? How did he know.

As I am typing this, I am wondering if there is a correlation with how WE GROOM OURSELVES to act out. I do not want to act out, I think it is disgusting and dispicable. But there is a process that happens that takes me from an emotional state to being willing to act out that seems very similar to being groomed by an abuser.

Just thinking out loud.

Next regarding the weight thing. One of the most painful experiences I can remember is my best friend teling a girl I was interested in that "He is not that much to look at, but he is a really nice guy." Then swooping in behind my back and taking her home from the date I took her on.

I do not have a very good esteem about my apperance. In fact, I often wonder if my wife is attracted to me or if she is around because I am a good provider, so ugly is not so much of a problem.

I also think that getting back into the shape that I was when I was in the milirary, would open the acting out doors wide open. This is a double bind. In some way, I think being more fit and attractive would facilitate more positive interactions with my wife, and ultimately help her be freeer or more willing to meet some of my needs out of sheer chemestry. But improving that chemestry in regards to the outside world seems like it is just asking for problems right now. Not that I would attract swim suit models, but that the sexual energy would notch up one notch out of physical attraction.

Back to my current gripe session. If I expected a positive response from my wife, and it was real, then that in itself would motivate me to be healthier. But that is alot of work to get nothing out of it. And I am not really that concerned with my looks for myself. So why bother.

This is a pretty big esteem issue isnt it?