Sex / Pornography Addiction Support Group

Great explanation.. and I am guilty of over simplifing the issue. Stopping is not easy else we all would have stopped on our own years ago.

Addictions do need lots of work and support. Lets not forget that! Thanks again Charlie, you are always insightful and take the time to give us all good information and support

Thanks for the kind words SereneLife. They are much appreciated. I hope I didn't come across as being judgmental or scolding. That certainly wasn't my intention. But I think it's extremely easy to forget that we addicts are totally and completely powerless over this addiction. I think it might be interesting to have some of us addicts relate stories of just what powerlessness meant in our own life. I know I could tell dozens of stories, and no one but another sex addict would ever understand.

How many days have you, or other addicts, spent 8, 10, 12, or more hours a day on the internet surfing for porn, or looking at porn magazines/videos, and then masturbating to the point of injuring yourself? I know I did that kind of thing on more than a few occasions.

I remember one afternoon when I went to one of the local massage parlors, and spent about 1 1/2 hours there, only to leave that establishment, and go directly into the massage parlor that was next door and do the whole thing all over again. It's crazy, but you just can't stop yourself. Absolute insanity!! I think it's important that we addicts never forget where we have come from, and that the spouses have some understanding of what we have gone through, although this is one of those things that you really have to experience to truly understand, at a gut level.

I agree, stopping the behaviour in its tracks, especially while acting out, is not going to happen unless the addict is ready. And you never are cured from addiction, it takes life long work and committment.

Thanks for sharing that point of view Charli. May i please ask for the reference for this information, i would love to read it myself to get more of an understanding? I would also like to share it with my psychologist whom does preach self control in conjunction with working on cognitive therapies.

Unfortunately there are no magic pills or potions. So what are your thoughts, when an alcoholic, drug addict or gambler goes to rehab for 28 days( and then onto a sober house for 6 months) to go cold turkey and learn about self control.

Thanks for taking the time to lay this out, especially since you have the experience that many newbies and spouses don't. It's a helpful reminder, esp. coming from someone who is not my spouse. =)

However, I am a little worried about the extremes to which you claim these guys are powerless. I have absolutely no doubt these guys (and gals) cannot reach sobriety on their own. There must be someone encouraging, scolding, challenging, and questioning as necessary. But, doesn't recovery also involve painfully working through an urge late at night? Or walking through a convenience store without buying another magazine? Wouldn't that require some form of control to push through it? From my research and experience, it takes a solid combination of 1) knowledge, 2) support, and 3) control to maintain sobriety. The overall problem of sex addiction is not the sex itself, but the personal issues that convince the person they need the chemical release of another big O to eliminate their symptoms. Deal with the issues first, then "controlling" your behavior enters the realm of possible.

Sorry if I'm making something out of nothing. Reading your post was a little defeating until that final paragraph - there you hit the nail precisely on the head. =)

Your thoughts?

Hi Trina,

I read through my original posting again to try and figure out what information you were talking about, and the only thing I could come up with was my definition of addiction. If that's what you're needing clarification on you can read any book written by Dr. Pat Carnes, Rev. Dr. Mark Laaser, Douglas Weiss, L.P.C., Jennifer P. Schneider, M.D., Ph. D., Charlotte Kasl, Ph. D., or the "Big Books" of any of the Twelve Step groups for these addictions. There is also plenty of support for this definition to be found in the literature on alcoholism, drug addiction, eating disorders, compulsive gambling, etc. If I misunderstood you, and you are looking for clarification on some other point, please let me know and I'll see what I can do to provide further clarification.

And Trina, for you and CaliMommy, I wanted to address the issue of self-control in sexual addiction recovery. Granted, it plays a role, but not necessarily in stopping the acting out. Where self-control plays a role is in preventing the addict from getting into a slippery spot in the first place. If you will remember the addictive cycle that Pat Carnes spoke of in "Out of the Shadows", the is a step in the process where the addict ritualizes their behavior, a place where the fantasies and memories take control. Once the addict is into the ritual phase or process, it is all but impossible to stop the process until they have gone ahead and acted out. Self-control stops them from getting to this point. Let me give you a couple of examples to explain what I'm talking about. Incidentally, what I'm actually talking about is boundaries.

One of the fellows I worked with some years ago was gay, and one of his favorite places to act out was in public parks, in the restrooms. For him to recover, he had to set, and the respect a physical barrier or limit around all public parks. He couldn't allow himself to get within five (5) blocks of them or he would wander in and eventually have a slip.

A lady I worked with would get into her ritualizing while reading romance novels. She had to stay away from that section of the bookstores and library, or she would have a slip.

For me, the nude bars and massage parlors were my downfall. Fortunately, such businesses are all grouped together here in St. Louis, so it's a simple matter of avoiding that part of town, which I'm able to do with no problem. This is where I see self-control coming into play, at least in the early stages of the recovery process.

As recovery progresses, it is not so much a matter of self-control as an issue of the temptation no longer being there. As you work through the childhood issues and buried emotions, the motivation to act out, the "gas" that fueled the behaviors, is removed, and without any "gas", the addiction won't go anywhere. But just because the addict has worked through everything and is no longer driven to act out, that doesn't mean he/she is no longer an addict. They will be a sex addict until the day they die, and whenever they come under stress, or place themselves in a slippery place, the are subject to slips and relapse. For that reason, they must constantly remain on guard and keep up their watch or vigil. This process, too, requires self-control and self-discipline.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that self-control is not a part of the equation, at least until the addict is in recovery and has figured out some boundaries for themselves. At that point, the self-discipline comes into play as they begin to observe their boundaries and not put themselves anyplace where they might be tempted. And later on, after they have worked through things, self-control again comes into play as they keep watch over their behaviors, and be careful not to place themselves in slippery places. I hope that explains things. If not, let me know what's still unclear and we can go from there. Thanks ladies. As always, you input and feedback is very much appreciated.

Actually that clarifies your position better thanks. I thought you were saying the addict was powerless, was unable to exercise self control ever. You were meaning before they surrendered not after.
I think we are on the same page. While the sexual addict is deep within the addiction there is a sense of powerlessness. But once he has reached rock bottom, and surrendered, he will need to work on his emotions and what triggers lead them to seek comfort in acting out, thus requiring some self control toward success.

I just like to be careful saying that the addict is powerless over their addiction, therefore telling them or spouses that there is no hope. Because there IS always hope. Everyone deserves to live free of addiction.

I still maintain that the addict is powerless over the addiction, even if they are in recovery and have surendered. All they need to do is take their eyes off of their Higher Power, or believe they have the addiction under control, and they will be back in their craziness in a nanosecond. That is what slips and relapses are all about. The addict gets cocky.

But if they keep themselves centered in the here and now, keep their attention focused on their Higher Power, do what they need to do to work their own recovery program, and keep their boundaries in place, they will be fine. This all requires a measure of self-control and self-discipline. But as I said, they never get past that point of being powerless.

One very good friend of mine and his wife are both recovering alcoholics. Both had been in recovery for over 25 years, and were working as therapists in one of the local treatment centers. One afternoon, word reached them that their primary support person (a Catholic priest who was also a recovering alcoholic) had been killed in an auto accident. Less then 15 minutes after they got this news, they were both in a bar, drinking themselves silly. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about, and that's what Dr. Pat Carnes meant when he was talking about things that could throw an addict into relapse. You have to constantly stay on guard, and stay surrendered DAILY!!

I love the way Sober puts it: "when recovery looses its priority, we have relapsed."

Sounds like you're thinking the same thing. Thanks for the informative and passionate post.

OK sorry to be a buzz kill but... this sounds a lot like god speak. powerless????? no, powerful once a person CHOOSES to get help they become powerful, to say one is powerless it is rejecting responsibility for ones actions. its a cop-out "its not my fault i entered my credit card number to look at porn/ rent a hotel and a whore to have sex / go to a dealer and buy crack" ?? everyone has the power to stop they CHOOSE not to get help. higher power? Don't say a higher power could be a rock or a tree or whatever you want, we all know what your talking about. your talking about god so these people that have a addiction problem you want them to swap the almighty bottle/drug/porn/sex for the almighty god. your not helping it your just giving them a new addiction. now if your already religious then 12 step is for you. however over 16% of the u.s. population is atheist or agnostic whats out there for them? addiction is a behavior all behavior is voluntary. its not a disease like some people think. tell a person with cancer that drug / sex / porn addiction is a disease and if they have the strength they well slap u. no one chooses cancer. but porn addicts CHOOSE to look up porn. sex addicts CHOOSE to have sex, drug addicts CHOOSE to use. now I'm not saying that its not a problem i live with a sex addict and had a addiction myself ( WoW ) but i made a CHOICE to not play it was so bad i lost a job to gaming because i would rather play then work. but then i made a CHOICE to stop and yes it was hard and yes it is hard to stop any addiction and that is why therapy and having support is so important. and if god is the way u CHOOSE to get over it then that is your CHOICE. however that is not the only way to get past this destructive behavior there are other CHOICES out there. the mental health community is still learning about addition and there are a lot of stuff that is unknown. i do agree that addictions do need lots of work and support. but god is NOT the only way. only one CHOICE, but the CHOICE to get help is up to the user. if that person doesn't want help then that is there CHOICE. i CHOOSE to stay because she needs help with her addiction but its my CHOICE.also one last thing there is a big diff between a rock / tree and god...... there are actually rocks and trees out there. now there might be people that get mad over my statments and im sorry however suger coating the problem well not fix it i saw a report on the effectiveness of 12-step programs ( AA to be specific
) and a internal review of AA showed a 5% success rate. now quitting on your own?? 5% so take that as you well. addiction is a real problem and i hope the best for all of you out there that is going through this very bad time. to each their own.

Hi EddieAK,

Thanks for responding. I understand some of what you said, but other parts of your response concern me. You said that once the addict chooses to get help, he/she has power. From my perspective, admitting you have a problem and deciding to get help is the same thing as admitting you are powerless. Before I reached that point, the only power of choice I had was where and how I was going to act out. Would it be porn and masturbation, or would I head out to the local topless/nude bars? Would I go pick up a prostitute, or would I go to a massage parlor? Those were my only choices.

You do have a point with the "Higher Power" thing. For some people in the Twelve Step programs, their "Higher Power" is a coffee cup or a tree. But usually these are folks who were in some way injured or damaged by either organized religion, or representatives of such groups (priests, ministers, rabbis, nuns, etc.). In time, as people work their program and the steps, their idea of their "Higher Power" gets more in line with traditional ideas of God, although some will always have nature, evolution, or some such concept as their "Higher Power".

You stated that swapping your addiction for the idea of some "Higher Power" was really just changing addictions. I strongly disagree, although I will admit that a few folks will not really change addictions, but will instead ADD a religion addiction to their list of problems. With most folks, surrendering to their "Higher Power" is the road to sanity. They are not switching addictions, they are breaking free, with the help of God.

You go on to say that sexual addiction is not a disease. That is absolutely not true, and the American Psychiatric Association agrees with me. When their new, revised edition of the diagnostic manual is published (early 2010), sexual addiction and compulsivity WILL BE LISTED as a mental and/or nervous disorder. To insist it isn't a disease is to say that it is either all a matter of choice (your position), or is a moral failing (positively not true).

You go on to basically say that the Twelve Steps and God ("Higher Power") are not the only way to recover. I agree. Twelve Step groups are not for everyone. For those who don't fit in with this program, there are others such as Rational Recovery. If I understand this program correctly, it is based on the concepts of Rational-Emotive Therapy as advocated by Dr. Albert Ellis. I really know nothing else about this group, but maybe it's something you might want to check into.

Finally, you talked about a study that said the success rate of Alcoholics Anonymous was only 5%, the same success rate as you'd have if you tried to stop on your own, "cold turkey". I know about the study you're quoting, and it was conducted on an extremely small group of addicts, without any random sampling involved. Those two factors call its reliability into question. There have been dozens and dozens of studies on the effectiveness of A.A., and the results have run from 6%-7% to 95%-96%. It depends on who's doing the study, how the study is done, what they are measuring, and how they are measuring it. It has been said that figures never lie. That's true, but it's also true that liars figure. Don't believe everything you hear!!