Sex / Pornography Addiction Support Group

It's really hard, isn't it? I am dealing with the same thing. My husband is addicted to online porn. The only advice I can give you is that this is an addiction and you can't make it about you. The things my husband looks at are nothing like me. Honestly, I think I'm a lot prettier and sexier than the women he looks at. But even if I didn't believe that, I can't make that about me. Your husband is looking at porn as a form of escape--from what is what the two of you must figure out together. Think of it like this: if he were addicted to alcohol, would the fact that he went to a bar to indulge this addiction affect your self-esteem? You are a worthy person, deserving of love and happiness. Don't let his addiction to sex and porn make you believe anything different. Keep your strength up and make sure you pamper yourself and take care of yourself. Feeling good about yourself and who you are will help you both while you try to begin some kind of recovery!

Hi serenity314,

First of all, let me welcome you to Daily Strength and to this panel. I hope you find here the understanding, support, and acceptance you are looking for. There are some incredible people on this panel, as I'm sure you'll find out, with a lot of wisdom and experience. Please use this resource often, and listen to what these folks have to say, since their advice and counsel comes from surviving experiences just like yours.

Your situation, unfortunately, is not unusual. There are many women on this panel who have gone through experiences quite similar to yours, and I'm sure you'll hear from some of them. I know everything looks rather bleak now, but there is hope, for you, your husband, and the relationship. However, recovery won't happen without a lot of hard work and dedication, nor will it happen without the right tools. So let me give you some ideas about where to get started.

First, you need to get some idea what you're dealing with. Since I believe knowledge is power, I usually suggest that those new to recovery begin the process by reading a book titled "Out of the Shadows: Understanding Sexual Addiction", by Patrick J. Carnes, Ph.D. This is the book that got me started. It will give you, and your husband, a very good outline of the problem. This book might be available at your local library or bookstore, or you can order it directly from either AMAZON.COM, or the publication and distribution are of Hazelden: www.recoverysuperstore.com.

As far as you personally go, you are what they call a "Codependent". The spouse and family members of every addict, of any type, are all defined as "codependent". Codependency is a collection of symptoms, beliefs, and behaviors that result from living in a dysfunctional relationship. There are lots of excellent books available on codependency, but I'm going to suggest that you try reading "Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Other and Start Caring for Yourself", by Melody Beattie. This book is very easy to understand, and should be available at your local library or bookstore. Of course, it can also be ordered directly from AMAZON.COM or Hazelden.

Next, both you and your husband might want to consider one or another of the Twelve Step groups (like Alcoholics Anonymous) that exist for sex addicts and their partners. There are at least five groups for your husband to consider: Sexaholics Anonymous (S.A.), Sex Addicts Anonymous (S.A.A.), Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous (S.L.A.A.), Sexual Compulsives Anonymous (S.C.A.), and Sexual Recovery Anonymous (S.R.A.). If you will click on the "Recommendations" tab at the top of this page, or at the top of this panel's Home Page, you will find all of the information you will need to contact each of these groups, including E-mail addresses. The Twelve Step groups you might wish to check out would include S-Anon/SA-Teen, Co-Sex Addicts Anonymous (C.O.S.A.), and Co-Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous (C.O.S.L.A.A.). Information of each of these groups can also be found by clicking the "Recommendations" tab.

When you go to each group's web page, be sure to check the "Where and When" listings. This is a directory of all of that fellowship's groups/meetings, indexed by state. See if there are any meetings that are convenient for you and/or your husband to attend. If there are no convenient meetings in any of the fellowships, then check out the telephone groups and the online meetings. Something in all of this should work for you. Pick a meeting or two that you will be able to attend on a regular (weekly) basis and then make a commitment to get to that group every week and participate in the meeting. Get yourself a sponsor and work the program.

Finally, we come to the issue of a therapist for both of you. Not all therapists are qualified to treat sexual addiction. For that reason, several websites have listings of specially trained and/or certified therapists/counselors for sex addicts and their spouses. The first website is maintained by Dr. Patrick J. Carnes (the fellow who wrote "Out of the Shadows") and is called Sex Help. The web address for this site is: www.sexhelp.com. The other website that might prove helpful is maintained by a group called the Society for the Advancement of Sexual Health, and their web address is: www.sash.net/. In additional to the listing of therapists, each of these sites contain a lot of other useful information, including suggested reading lists, and information on treatment programs that deal with sexual addiction.

Finally, I wanted to give you one more website that contains a lot of useful information. This site is maintained by the Sexual Recovery Institute, and their web address is: www.sexualrecovery.com//reso...

Well, that's all I've got for now, but that should give both you and your husband some guidance and direction as you both begin your recovery journey. I need to caution you that the journey can, at times, be arduous, and long. Typically, the recovery process itself takes somewhere between three (3) and five (5) years, but the growth process that results from your recovery work is a lifelong project. Although sometimes painful, I assure you the work of recovery is well worth the effort when you reach a place of peace, joy, and contentment.

Best of luck to you and your husband as you begin your journey. Please keep in touch with this panel and let us know how you both are doing. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers in the days and weeks to come.

I'm sorry, I had a lot of information I wanted to cover, and in the process of going over things, I left out two very, very important resources. Both of these are books. One is titled "Back From Betrayal", by Jennifer P. Schneider, M.D., Ph.D., and the other is "How To Raise Your Self-Esteem", by Nathaniel Brandon, Ph.D.

Dr. Schneider's book speaks directly to the feelings you are now experiencing. Probably the most common feeling/emotion that spouses of sex addicts experience is anger. It is universal. Dr. Schneider addresses the feelings of hurt, betrayal, worthlessness, and anger that all spouses deal with at one time or another in their recovery process.

Dr. Brandon's book is one of several he's written over the years that deals with self-esteem. I personally believe this book is his best because it actually tells you how to correct the problem. The book contains a number of sentence stems such as "One talent I have that I really haven't developed yet is......" You then complete the sentence. Dr. Brandon suggests you write out the answers or finishes to the sentences, and I would add that it's almost mandatory for you t do that if you are to get any benefit at all from the book. There are hundreds of sentence stems in the book, so take you time working through it, and put some thought into your answers.

One final point (and I'll let one of the spouses tell you more about this) is that there is a group for spouses of sex addicts here on Daily Strength. You might want to check that site out as well.

Hi Serenity,

I appologize if I am giving you redundant information, I haven't been here in 5 weeks but I am back. I understand your trauma, hurt, fear and the rollercoaster ride of emotions you are going through. I was there and recovering well, so there is hope. My h "Soberone" who posts here is a recovering SA and has been sober for over 19 months now.

I have to agree with Londy and remind you that this is not about you.

And in regards to Charli's advice it couldn't be better said. Charli is a whealth of information as a retired psychologist and professor. What Charli is getting at is this recover is not just for your husband...it takes serious dedication on both parts. Let me just say something that maybe no one has bothered to tell you...YOU HAVE BEEN TRAUMATIZED. You are suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSD). For a long time we SOs were just thought of as being overly dramatic, helpless victims, repeating what we learned from childhood by choosing and maintaining relationships with sex addicts.

Charli, I have to let you know about a new book just published & given to me by our sex therapist Dr. Milton Magnus, who trained with Patrick Carnes..."Your Sexually Addicted Spouce...How Partners Can Cope and Heal" by Barbara Steffens and Marsha Means www.bsteffens.com. This book has empiricle study of PTSD in relational trauma and what that means regarding our very specific symptoms, as well as strategies for recovery.

We have been labeled as controlling, manipulative and hystaricle (Freud) by 20th century psychologists. Hence the term co-dependant and co-addict which implys we are to take the blame for our husband's addiction or at the very least for choosing a man like our husband...I love you to death Charli and know this is not what you mean to do nor any of the other therapists and authors on this subject. I understand that they are just simply trying to understand and define our trauma so that it can be treated. In fact, I myself have gotten so used to the label that I've used it myself. But Serinity, I'm not sure how you feel about those labels but as for me it provoked a certain, sweet, kind of rage deap within. It took all my adult energy to keep from lashing out at any well-meaning therapist, 12-step leader or SA who called me this. I have found in the last year or so that I have been in groups that other SOs tend to share my feelings about this label and sadly I truly believe that this label and misunderstanding of our trauma have been detrimental to many spouses recovery, opting enstead to maintain their dignity and reject any theraputic benifit promised by those applying that name. I believe I have read just about every book Charli (our resident therapist) has suggested, so let me emphasise that every thing Charli has reccomened are extreemly important tools for you to use and use often. It is important for you to get to work right away as the longer you stay in the state of mind you are in the harder it is to get out.

In addition, let me tell you a bit more about the book I suggested and suggest that you make it your first priority followed up by the regimin Charli has suggested above. "Your Sexually Addicted Spouse...How Partners Can Cope and Heal" by Barbara Steffens and Marsha Means. I love how this book starts out acknowledging our (SO's) hatred toward being labeled Co-dependants & Co-addicts...as if we had a choice in the matter. It refutes this label and instead acknowledges what we spouses have known all along... This book discusses the new findings that we SO's are off the charts when tested for Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome (PTSD). I haven't gotten very far but it is supposed to show the empirical evidence...that way if your therapist is referring to this label you can politely ask that they read this book...In addition, it promises strategies in recovering from this trauma & healing affirmations in a step by step guide. I can't wait to finish it...I will let all of you know more as I go along.

Also, did you know there is a spouses only board you can link into on my profile?

Good wished Serenit. There is hope and freedom from this monster that has entered you mind. With determination you will hear as I heard back in February, just 10 months after discovering my husband...my 8 year old son turned to me one beautiful day and said "Mom, your happy again!" to which I replied 'What makes you say that.' and he said "Because your being goofy and all that stuff again." My heart swells with a painful joy at remembering that moment. Pain at knowing how my sadness had affected my children, though I tried hard to hide it and Joy at saying good-by to that awful deamon of excruciating sadness that tried so very hard to drag me down.

Goof luck Serenity, hope to see you here more often.

Lorilou

OOOPSSS!!!!

keep forgetting spell check.

Hi Lorilou,

Great to see you back!! We've missed you!! I wasn't aware of the new book, but I've gone ahead and ordered a copy for myself. I should have it in a week or so I guess. All I'll need to do then is try to find time to read it!! Between teaching classes, doing some private counseling, helping my two daughters (and my brand new grandson), dealing with my ageing mother, etc. I barely have time to breathe, much less eat or sleep. But, I stay busy and out of trouble.


Lorilou, I agree with you completely on the term "codependent". It comes no where near describing exactly what's going on with the spouses and family members of addicts. And I'm sure that this term will eventually be changed. Shoot, we might even wind up with a new diagnostic category in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (D.S.M.) to describe this condition. But unfortunately, the term "codependent" is all we have right now, and even that term has not been accepted by the psychiatric/psychological powers that be. The idea of sexual addiction has been around since at least 1986, and it's finally going to make it into the next issue of the Diagnostic Manual, due out in early 2010. It took 24 years for a disorder that has a name to make it into the Manual. How long will it take something like "codependency" to be redefined and make its way into the Manual? I guess time will tell. In the meantime, I'd welcome any suggestions you, or anyone else has, as to what we can call this situation or condition.

Please let me also highly recommend the new book, Your sexually addicted spouse. I attended the SASH 2009 annual conference in La Jolla last month. I got to be in a session where Barbara Steffens was one of the three presenters. She and her book are absolutely great. The betrayed are rarely looked upon as being in trauma and we ARE! We need to be validated. I was sitting in this room filled w/ therapists. I was one what some may call a " a looky lou". Before the session started, I went to introduce myself to the presenters and said I would like to particpate in the discussion at the end. The session was called "treating the trauma model". They welcomed me and said they would like if I could stand up at the end of the session. When I put up my hand, they brought a microphone to me so I could be heard. I had prepared a short version of myself as the truama model. I am the trauma model!I had come there to learn and I DID learn so much.
After the session ended, many in attendance came up to me w/ questions. One that maybe of particular interest here, is one asked if I was in a support group. I said yes and gave Daily strength for which they all wrote that down.
Also the 3 presentors that were up at the front told me, as they looked out in the audience, there wasn't a dry eye while I was speaking. I did know it was VERY quite, you could hear a pin drop. Quite a few therapists also told me, they never REALLY got the trauma the betrayed are in until they heard that session and me speak.
Yes, ablsolutely get the book, your sexually addicted spouse. I do feel the title maybe a little misleading, as some betrayers don't think they are addicted- READ this book
PS- as the session was being presented, different things were being put up on the screen. I had experinced every one of them and cried.

Wow Daisylover,

That's a really cool story. I'm still reading it and typically I no longer get choked up when reading my recovery books but in this on the story about the woman who had been diagnosed with terminal cancer who had battled operations, survived radiation and her only wish was to live to see her son's graduation when she discovered her husband's infidelities said this was a pain that went far beyond the pain of knowing she lived on borrowed time. In fact, she said after spending days shivering under the covers and in a darkened closed she actually was glad the cancer would end her suffering...I remember those days of longing for death, fantasising about the peace I would have once it overtook me. And in remembering that fresh tears poured out. I morned for that person I was.

I do have to say I love life, I am thankful I have regained my love of life once more. I and my family have come a long way and the more mature side of me is grateful for the awakening, renewal and new passions I have in life that would not be possible if it were not for the tragedy we had to overcome. But at the same time I would not wish the pain I went through even to my worst enemy.


Charli, thanks for the history. I didn't know you were still counseling. Good for you. Don't you think it is theraputic for yourself? Anyway, I have to look up the DVM def. of codependence but I found it in a recent text and I would assume it came from the DVM but it simply defined codependence as [learned helplessness extremely needy]. I know Soberone, when he when to Pia Melody's certification course in AZ he brought up the issue to her and even she is gravitating away from the label opting instead for "relational trauma." Of course this doesn't mean get rid of all the literature and 12-step groups that use this term. I think it just calls for making everyone aware. I know it is hard if you are not an SO to understand but the book put it so well when it said it minimized our pain. Especially in the beginning when your caught up in the whorl wind of chaos that ensues just after discovery only to end up in a therapists office or your first 12 step meeting and on the first day without even giving a full history of yourself you are labeled a co-dependant, co-addict. It would be like going into the doctor's office and without even looking at your chart or giving you a physical exam or mammogram and the Doctor states: "You have breast cancer because you are a woman in her 40's complaining of tenderness in the breast." I mean sure the doctor probably has a good idea that you have that cancer but can not know for certain till he does a full exam. But not only that, imagine living your life thinking you were a reasonably well adjusted person; you had survived some of life's struggles; you had a wonderful life and family; then being struck by the blow of being informed your best-friend, the person you trusted with your life was addicted and out of control with multiple affairs, unbeknown-st to you. And then to top it off someone says "And by the way you are just as sick as your spouse, simply because you married him." I that the way to approach someone who has been traumatized? It's a wonder that any of us SOs end up in recovery with that approach.

Serenity, as you can see the knowledge in SA & SO is still evolving but evolving rapidly. We are fortunate in the information that has come recently. But due to this it is imperative to stay in touch and make sure the professionals you seek are aware of the model for recovery described to you in an earlier post that Charli gave you. True dedication to this model can virtually, (I hesitate to say cure) but put your recovery from this trauma in remission and give you the skills to cope with life like you had never had before leading you to become the person you were always meant to be.

Blessings and Hugs,

Lorilou

Hi Lorilou,

I'm still doing my volunteer counseling at the men's center, and at the vet's center here in St. Louis, plus I'm doing a little bit of work with Dr. Mark Schwartz and his wife, Lori Galperin, M.S.W. They run a treatment center here in town that treats eating disorders primarily, but they also deal with sexual addiction and sexual trauma. However, their real area of specialization is Dissociative Identity Disorder (what they used to call Multiple Personality Disorder) that is often caused by childhood participation in Satanic, ritualistic abuse. This kind of activity is EXTREMELY common here in this area, and the number of individuals being diagnosed with D.I.D. is growing daily.

I do like your idea of redefining "codependency" as "relational trauma". This new term comes much, much closer to the truth of the matter, and doesn't stigmatize the partner or family member by implying that they are as sick as their addict family member. I think I'll start using that term whenever possible from now on. And maybe I'll pass it on to a buddy of mine who's on the board of directors of the American Psychological Association and ask that they consider including this diagnostic in a future edition of their Diagnostic and Statistical Manual. (As slow as these guys move, they probably won't get around to even considering it until 2040 or so. Maybe it will be included in the tenth or twelfth edition of the manual. Oh well, you do what you can).

Serenity: What do you mean that he worked very hard to improve the situation? What has he done that makes you believe that? What exactly has he done? That makes a huge difference about where he is going.

He could have had an entire change of heart and that is all that I would consider recovery to be.

Even if that is true, and his heart has truly changed, it is a help to you, but that alone won't answer the problems that you're having. At least I know it didn't for me. My H changed his behavior once caught and seems to have changed his behaviors, if not his entire belief system. The latter is what I think is meant by recovery. But, the fact that he quit has little to do with what had already occured. It didn't address the damage he had already done by his attitudes and behaviors.

The thing that I have found is that your self esteem should have little, if anything, to do with his estimation of you. That's why it's self-esteem. I don't think its your regard for yourself that's the problem. I think more what gets decimated is our Hs estimation of us. His esteem of me.

I expected that my H held me in great regard because we were married for so long. His activies showed me that wasn't true at all. So, in my estimation, what I have to overcome isn't any lack of self-esteem...it's lack of his. Even Christie Brinkley, a world-renowned beauty and very successful woman ran into the same disregard. So, I don't feel alone there. Nor should you. Just because you know that you're a good person, doesn't mean that his actions say that he does...or did...does it? So, I see that as the problem...not self-esteem.

I looked to my H to restore the feeling that I meant something to HIM. That he found me worthwhile and that he found me attractive and desireable. His behaviors and those things he sought told me clearly that he didn't with no doubt at all in my mind. He destroyed the feeling of desire between us.
That's what happened in my case anyway.

His job became overcoming the fact that I no longer believed he had any respect for me, esteem for me, or desire for me whatsoever. Over 22 months has passed and he has proven that he does care. He does respect me now, if not in the past. He found that given the choice, I was more valuable than his fantasies. That is good and acceptable. Not great and wonderful...to me...but acceptable.

You see, I know that he couldn't have lived with me if he didn't change up really quickly. I wouldn't allow it. And I was not silent about my observations and feelings at all. He cared enough to stay even after I let him know exactly how I felt about what he was doing...and that wasn't pretty, nor was it brief. So, I did learn that he cared for me in some way. Still not sure in what way though. That's left unclearn. Maybe can never be known in my case...I don't know.

But, as far as my feeling as I once did, attractive to him, desireable to him, secure, comfortable, content, I have not. I don't know if that can ever happen.

The thing is that I know that doesn't mean that I'm not desireable. I just don't feel desireable to him. And that presents a real marital problem. Because I should feel that I am more desireable to him than anyone else and I don't. That is what I used to feel and don't anymore. Don't know if there is an answer to that. If there is, I've yet to find it. And neither has he. Visual proof is hard to overcome. I don't envy his position. I wouldn't want to be there.

You feel hurt and betrayed because you have been betrayed. I've read that is the most painful experience a person can have...betrayal of your trust. Not to mention decimation of your value to your mate. I don't know that anyone knows how to repair the trust and love when it's broken that way. I've heard many speak of it, but I don't understand even what they mean. I guess I'm dense.

As far as trust. He will have a hard time earning that back. Once destroyed trust is very, very difficult to reinstate. Just looking at the cause for our economy problems makes that very clear. The whole nation is standing back and reevaluating how much trust they are willing to extend to the system. So how much more do we stand back?

Remember that he is the one who has to do that. There is nothing you can do that I know of. He destroyed that trust and he has to find a way to restore it. What could you possibly do about that?

My H regained enough trust forme to believe that he has quit his behaviors, at least for the last 22 months. So, I suppose that's some trust restored. I'm not sure though, as you are unsure in your heart, that he won't go there sometime in the future. And therein is the problem.

So what do I do? I can only look at what I know at this time. And, if I feel that risk is minimal that he will return to his habits, then I can continue in that small trust. It is better than none at all. I have to be honest with myself, as you obviously are by your words. When my H seems fully trustworthy to me, he will be, until then, it is at the level it should be for now.

The thing is too, that you said that you still love him. Well, that being the case, you will have to try and let him have the time to repair what he's done. That is the gift that love offers from my view...a chance that would be denied anyone else.

And it is not an easy thing to offer at all. It is riddled with suffering and anxiety for you and frustration for him. Or so it has been for me. But, thus far, I remain willing to let him try...and so I continue when it's hard to go on with it. That's the love that remains. And, I don't expect to make any record-breaking progress. I just let myself do whatever makes me feel best.



What helps me is that I know the cards are on the table...and he can never again say he had any misunderstanding about what I feel about this and what it will create if he does it again...even once.