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http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/335561/title/Gut_bacteria_linked_to_MS
Gut bacteria linked to MS: Questions remain about how autoimmune disorder is triggered
Science News December 3, 2011; Vol.180 #12 By Tina Hesman Saey
"Researchers need to figure out whether multiple sclerosis is caused by a faulty immune system that reacts inappropriately to gut bacteria, or if some specific bacterium sets off the chain reaction.
Gurumoorthy Krishnamoorthy and Hartmut Wekerle of the Max Planck Institute of Neurobiology in Martinsried, Germany, and their colleagues used the genetically engineered mice to try to figure out the series of events that might connect gut bacteria to the immune systems attack on the brain. Something happens in the gut to stir up immune cells called T cells. The riled-up T cells then leave the gut and travel to lymph nodes in the neck where they meet up with antibody-producing immune cells called B cells. The T cells produce chemicals that help B cells mature and prepare to attack myelin. Then, both types of immune cells travel to the brain and spinal cord and begin fraying the myelin coating on nerves, the researchers propose.
Its not clear, however, how gut bacteria prompt T cells to ramp up, or which of the hundreds of species of bacteria in the intestines might be responsible.
I dont personally believe that one type of bacteria will do the job, says Krishnamoorthy. He thinks the overall mix of bacteria may be important. The researchers are beginning systematic work to try to narrow down their vast pool of suspect bacteria. Preliminary evidence suggests that some type of Clostridium may be involved, but it is still too early to say for sure, he says."
Gut bacteria linked to MS: Questions remain about how autoimmune disorder is triggered
Science News December 3, 2011; Vol.180 #12 By Tina Hesman Saey
"Researchers need to figure out whether multiple sclerosis is caused by a faulty immune system that reacts inappropriately to gut bacteria, or if some specific bacterium sets off the chain reaction.
Gurumoorthy Krishnamoorthy and Hartmut Wekerle of the Max Planck Institute of Neurobiology in Martinsried, Germany, and their colleagues used the genetically engineered mice to try to figure out the series of events that might connect gut bacteria to the immune systems attack on the brain. Something happens in the gut to stir up immune cells called T cells. The riled-up T cells then leave the gut and travel to lymph nodes in the neck where they meet up with antibody-producing immune cells called B cells. The T cells produce chemicals that help B cells mature and prepare to attack myelin. Then, both types of immune cells travel to the brain and spinal cord and begin fraying the myelin coating on nerves, the researchers propose.
Its not clear, however, how gut bacteria prompt T cells to ramp up, or which of the hundreds of species of bacteria in the intestines might be responsible.
I dont personally believe that one type of bacteria will do the job, says Krishnamoorthy. He thinks the overall mix of bacteria may be important. The researchers are beginning systematic work to try to narrow down their vast pool of suspect bacteria. Preliminary evidence suggests that some type of Clostridium may be involved, but it is still too early to say for sure, he says."
1.) Borody TJ, Leis S, Campbell J et al. Fecal Microbiota Transplantation (FMT)in multiple sclerosis (MS). Am J Gastroenterol 2011; 106: S352.
2.) Borody TJ, Warren E, Leis S et al. Bacteriotherapy using fecal flora: Toying with human motions. J Clin Gastroenterol 2004; 38(6): 475-83.
3.) Borody TJ, Torres M, Campbell J et al. Reversal of inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) with recurrent fecal microbiota transplants (FMT). Am J Gastroenterol 2011; 106: S352
Wondering if FMT can affect neuro function then read how Parkinson's symptoms are being "eased" by this type of treatment.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20927962.600-faecal-transplant-eases-symptoms-of-parkinsons.html
Fecal transplant eases symptoms of Parkinson's January 19, 2011 by Anil Ananthaswamy
What I understand ( I am not a medical professional) is that they give the patient enemas to clean out the intestines. Once this is done they take the fecal matter / stool / poop of a HEALTHY individual with sterile water and blend it up. Then use this to give the sick individual an enema with the donors stool. It sounds gross but the GI is meant to have poop in it either way. It is not the poop that is the main ingredient though, it is the ton of bacteria that are not in probiotics and the enema is delivered rectally. This method delivers 100's of species of LIVE bacteria to the region they are needed, namely the intestines. This versus taking maybe 1-12 bacteria orally (pill or kefir) where the vast majority are KILLED by stomach acids and enzymes.
As more research is done and controlled method of delivery is refined through clinical research there should be more answers for not only autoimmune IBD (Crohns and Ulcerative Colitis) but IBS and quite possibly other autoimmune diseases. Since they know that good bacteria can protect the gut mucosa, down regulating inflammation and immune response but key in autoimmune diseases. I will post more research as it becomes available. If you find any research on this topic please post.
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Here are some doctors that are doing FMT.
1.) Dr. Lawrence Brandt (Bronx, New York)
2.) Jackson Siegelbaum (Harrisburg, Pennsylvania)
3.) Bright Medicine Clinic (Portland, Oregon)
4.) Dr. Colleen Kelly (Providence, Rhode Island)
http://www.dailystrength.org/groups/loved-ones-who-support-someone-with-ms/discussions/messages/14447218
I have wrote all about this many times as this is how I helped my son get over his eczema (autoimmune condition) and because I have UC that I really feel was triggered by repeated antibiotic treatments. I have fungal overgrowth and very high in many BAD bacteria, deficient in good bacteria and fecal chemistry that show reduced liver and pancreatic function ) :
I had a fecal transplant this past March after a losing 9 month battle with clostridium difficile (c diff). The dr who did mine had to get the protocol set up at our hospital, and I was the first one. His name is Dr. Peder Pedersen in Salt Lake City, Utah.
I prepped the same as you would for a colonoscopy the day before the procedure. They took my donors stool that morning (my hubby's), prepared it into a 'slurry' in a blender we provided to be disposed of after. It was inserted as far up as he could go and deposited throughout my colon.
I had an immediate relief of c diff symptoms from the moment I woke from the anesthesia. I am still c diff free. I have not noticed a difference in my MS symptoms since the procedure. It was brought to my attention that there is research, etc regarding the connection, before I had it done, so I was aware of the possibility.
The procedure was life saving for me. However, I have had continued issues that we aren't sure if they are directly related to the long battle with c diff. I developed a very deep fissure, then an abscess, then a fistula requiring surgery in August. I am on a journey still today to determine the cause of my continued fevers, since these issues, once taken care of, did not resolve them. I'm grateful c diff is gone, and grateful that I had a gastroenterologist who was willing to think and act outside the box!
These are SOME of the things your liver does for you ( I have posted this many times).
* Processes medications you take orally
* Processes sugar with pancreas to break it down and store it
* makes bile to emulsify fat ( you need healthy fat for over 60% of brain, skin, sex hormones and steroids, etc)
* Makes many proteins (Albumin, etc, etc,etc)
* Processes vitamins like D
* Processes hormones
* Recycles hemoglobin off blood (RBC die every 120 days and you make over 2 million RBC every SECOND) so this is a big job
*Filters non-bacteria toxins out of blood..ie heavy metals
* Contains immune cells that filter bacteria and toxins out of the blood
SOOO if you have all these bacteria and their toxic wastes floating around like I do and confirmed through tests. Then my liver has a problem child that is taking up many resources. Then my doc gives me Asacol to take everyday which again is processed by liver and reduces function. Well then the bad bacteria and meds are taking up more of my livers time and energy. Like a mom with a problem child things are not getting done and she is getting worn out. I was told I got rid of H Pylori after second round of 3 antibitoics for a total of 4 weeks and I am hoping many of the bad bacteria. I am doing coffee enemas and taking probitoics to help.
A day before I was dx with UC I had a vitamin D check done and was 6 on a 32-100 scale this is HORRIBLY deficient. I am wondering if a weak liver was not able to make as much bile as I used to because I have had mucus poop. So I wasn't absorbing much fat and I am wondering as a consequence I had a harder time absorbing and storing fat soluble vitamin D a pro-hormone. As you need fat to absorb this vitamin and to store it.
How does this affect you? IF..IF you have bad bacteria overgrowth this could affect absorption and metabolism. Bad bacteria can negatively affect liver CENTRAL to fat and FAT SOLUBLE VITAMINs K, A, D, E.
So my question: Many of you have said you had low D levels and this is reported with many autoimmune conditions [UC, MS, etc] could this be due to impaired liver damage? This gives a plausible hypothesis as to why these people could not bring up their vitamin D levels even with high doses or why their D levels would fall so fast after stopping the high dose.
You need to see the loop made by liver and GI bacteria.
1.) Liver filters bad bacteria and their toxic byproducts zapping time and energy from liver.
2.) If liver then reduces bile factors this can impair fat breakdown (+ subsequent absorption of fat and fat sol. vitamins) of Long Fatty Acid Chains into short chains.
3.) Some good bacteria FEED on short chains so if they are deficient so will be the good bacteria.
4.) Less good bacteria to fight off bad means more bad bacteria. This goes back to the loop of more work for the liver and less time & energy to do other jobs.
So what are your thoughts on my non-medical professional pondering?
THANK YOU for posting your info both the good news of your C. diff and the not-so-good news about your fissure etc. We need the whole truth. So again I want to thank you.
I wish you good luck with you resolving these additional issues and please keep us posted.
EP
My opinion on your non-medical professional pondering is that you continue to amaze me with your knowledge and research! I love it! I know the gut has much to do with how our bodies and organs function. While I was suffering with c diff (the biggest and baddest of bad bacteria in your gut), my colon was not absorbing the nutrients my body needed. I had hair loss (two bald spots that have since started to regrow), weight loss that I couldn't afford, I developed a spot of eczema on my back, and I've never had eczema before. If I was told that having another fecal transplant would take away the fevers and other continued symptoms, I would do it again in a heartbeat! I really was disappointed I didn't experience any improvement with my MS. But then... Whatever is causing the fevers could be keeping my MS from showing improvement, so I wouldn't feel the difference anyway. I don't know...
Very good as always. Every time you have something so comprehensive you should email it to different researchers.
When I started seeing my PCP thats one of the things she mentioned and believes causes ms.
Thanks, Alma
Thank you for your replies.
The reason I bring this topic up is because many docs are NOT given any info on enteric (GI) bacteria as it relates to health. When I asked my GI doc, the doc who specializes in the gut, for 1 diagnostic profile of my GI to gather more data. He said "You have UC, no I will not script any test for you."
Thus I went to a GOOD lab after researching my options and found what I told you about in Reply#4.
UC and MS are autoimmune diseases and involve immune response (70-80% is in your gut) and inflammation (part of immune process). IF ..IF you have a fungal growth and you take steroids to reduce inflammation it ALSO increases blood sugar. Sugar is what fungus feed off of and while steroids may reduce inflammation in the beginning it can feed fungus that will eventually increase inflammation and reduce absorption.
Many labs don't even test for fungus and the majority of bacteria. It seems like if you are going to be using steroids for chronic conditions you would want to at LEAST rule out the patient having a yeast /fungal infection. Again tho I am not a medical professional.
Wishing all of you the best in reading the research to be the best health advocate for yourself. As you are the most to lose or gain from your health.
EP
I have been doing coffee enemas. Then I take a 1 1/2 cups warm water, add it to the rinsed out enema bag and then add 1 capsule of probiotics. Sometimes I add a teaspoon of prebiotics to it too. I then let it drain in and leave it for 10 minutes before voiding.
If you take it orally most of it is killed by stomach acids. Since probiotics, filtered water and prebiotics are all naturally in intestines it seems like a much more efficient method of delivery with a much larger number of bacteria getting to the target location alive.
I am just saying what I do. I am not a doc and you need to speak to your doc about what is best for you.
EP
PS Has anyone else who is on steroids been tested for fungal issues? It seems like a pertinent topic to broach with your health care provider.