Lyme Disease Support Group

I find this to be one of the most frustrating unanswered questions. My husband won't believe it and says it has not been found in semen or vaginal secretions. I just read two days ago that it has been. I am going to ask my LLMD today, but I sense he will say just what you said "it is a controversy"... "no one can be certain". There are a lot of couples with lyme, I know that. The thinking is that if you live together you are exposed to the same risks outdoors or from pets... but I'm not so sure. Like everything else this illness has up its sleeve, it wouldn't surprise me one stinkin' bit. Do we obstain? Not on purpose but lately I have too much pain to tolerate it. We use condoms anyway b/c I went off the pill when I started all these abx.

We don't abstain.

I wonder - would our LLMD's tell us to avoid sex or to use condoms if they thought it could be transmitted that way? Esp those seeing infectious disease doctors (who are LLMD, of course), I would think they'd say something to avoid the spread.

I've also never seen anything written about it in the articles and pamphlets about avoiding Lyme.

Now, that isnt' to say that they may not prove a link later on after more testing is done. But for now, it's not something we're willing to give up.

It's taken enough from my family already.

I'm not involved in a sexual relationship and don't expect to be in the future. Because BB is a spirocete, I believe that when all the data comes in it will prove to be sexually transmitted. It seems wise to err on the side of caution whether you are have sex or sharing water bottles.

Hi, Bertinam,

Lyme has not been found in vaginal secretions or semen. But then again, Lyme "has never" been found in red cells either, even tho I have a film of dozens of the buggers popping out of each of my RBCs as they are dying. The health insurance industry is actively working against research that would show late Lyme disease, including intracellular spirochetes.

I apparently got Lyme 16 years ago - maybe as much as 25, as I had an earlier episode of an unidentified fatiguing illness which I recovered from in about 4 months - and have been disabled from it for 15 years. My wife during that time has gone from being a fairly active woman to a couch potato, easily fatigued. Her blood test showed low levels of Lyme. Apparently her immune system is better able to contain it - which may be a function of the mechanism of exposure. Since she was exposed by me, the initial exposure (the "inoculum") dose is much lower than from an infected tick. That in turn could have allowed her immune system to get a head start on containing the infection.

So even if, say, the condom breaks or slips, it would not necessarily mean infection and illnes.

There is also a big difference between the parts of the immune system that prevent/cure viral infections, and those at work on Lyme.

Viral infections are detected by dendritic cells and natural killer (NK) cells; but also by macrophages that ingest free viruses and rip them to pieces, displaying the pieces on their outside like a captured battle flag. These flags then kick off the T cell reactions, one of which attacks infected cells and the other of which starts selecting and turning on B cells that make antibodies against the virus.

With Lyme, the first detection is the same, but then the remaining reactions vary. Cytotoxic T cells and macrophages attack free Borellia. (Lyme interferes with this step, protecting itself against the immune system and reducing overall immmune effectiveness.) Antibody-producing B cells are ineffective, as there are not enough free spirochetes to trigger a really robust antibody reaction (even tho this is what the ELISA screening test looks for) in about half of people infected. Those with antibodies are still not protected as any spirochetes that are already within cells are not detected and atacked; L forms (cell-wall-deficient) spirochetes are not attacked, and cysts (inactive, tightly compacted spirochetes) are relatively immune to attack.

If your husband gets a 10-day rebound of a viral infection, this indicates that the timing of inducing, and then shutting down, the antibody reaction is at fault. That particular type of vulnerability (I had it as a kid, way before infection) does not have much to do with response to Lyme.

The upshot, in simple language, is that being vulnerable to viruses does not necessarily mean higher susceptibility to Lyme.

So (many words later - sorry) my advice is to play it safe - condoms or abstinence. A spermicide is not likely to kill Lyme as readily as it can kill sperm. A diaphragm leaves the semen inside your vagina, which may have a mild abrasion in it from just the sex act itself, which would allow an infectious exposure to the woman. Or the Lyme spirochete may be able to penetrate the mucous membranes of the vagina without any apparent injury.

The risks to a man are much lower (lots less mucous membrane exposed), and come primarily from oral activity, unless there are sores or abrasions on the penis itself.

Alternately, you (or your partner) may decide that the risk is low enough that you (he) is willing to accept it for themself. But I would not let someone else make this decision for me.


Jerry

According to The Lyme Disease Solution, by Dr Singleton, lyme has been found in vaginal secretions and semen...(p6). Although it has not been proven to be and STD in humans it has in animals. Ugh.. that scared the begeebies out of me when I read it, but he didn't say WHICH research so I can't look it up easily and I was too tired to dig. Has anyone else read this? I have to admit, I think uncleben is right... If syphillus is and STD, why not LYME? They are both spirochetal? It doesn't make sense to me that if lyme is sytemic and effects all body systems, why not the reproductive organs? If active Bb can cross the placenta, it must be there?

Very unsettling but very important post Bertinam... thank you for posting it.

I found this interesting bit from a scientist on the difference from the Lyme bacteria and syphillus. I need some hope because I am getting quite depressed on this lovely first day of spring. I did not become a nun for a reason...lol

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/aska...

I have read a bit on this already, in fact what I read was written by an expert in Long Term Lyme and he gave a resounding, "NO" to transmittal sexually. I will be seeing this doc in May so I can ask again, but I'm not adding this to the list of things to worry over.

Jerry, you sound very knowledgeable and noone can say that your wife didn't get lyme's from you, but there is no proof that she didn't get it herself in the past either. A high percentage of chronic lyme sufferers never knew they were bitten by a tick! There are just too many unanswered variables here, but I intend to heed the advice of the Columbia Medical Lyme and Tick Research team as well as the medical expert who has testified to the Joint Commission on Health. I am not a nun.... and my guy is perfectly fine!

Good luck to all!

I seem to remember reading that it's the corkscrew shape and movement of the BB that helps it travel beyond the bloodstream and get into the lymph system and past the blood brain barrier. This is undoubtedly just a theory since so little is really known. It just seems so plausible.
As an aging babyboomer,I was a revolutionary during the sexual revolution. Now I regret that I wasn't alot more cautious back in the day. In addition to Lyme I have Epstein-Barr, Babesia, Bartonella, Erlichia and God knows what else. Some of these could be sexually transmitted too. If so, it was way too high a price to pay for intercourse.
If I had my life to live over again, I'd choose autoeroticism if I wasn't trying to make a baby.

Hi Bertinam.

Just to add another response, i am married and it frankly never occured to me there might be a problem, so we have not abstained at all-
My Wife has not been affected with Lyme as a result of our bedroom activities.
If i (or either of us) personally were inclined to consider the transference of lyme by means of intercourse an actual possibility, the solution of choice would to use a condom as a matter of practicality.
My wife has had a hysterectomy, so birth control in its various forms ( foams, gels, condoms) are not a consideration in the ability to state our experience in not having transferred lyme in this manner ....
(and it isn't as if we have not given it a damn good try, LOL.)


i hope this helps.

For whatever it's worth . . . I have three married friends who were all diagnosed with Lyme BEFORE they had children. I was concerned about transmission myself, so I asked if their husbands had it too. None of their husbands had it.

I was wondering if anyone else has noticed significantly more females than males in their Lyme circles? I know mine is about 20 to 1. Just curious.

Thanks & healthy wishes to all.