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Discussion:
Dark Green Veggies and Vitamine K
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While in the hospital, even with a heparin drip, we couldn't figure out why my blood kept clotting as it did. There didn't seem to be a reason for it. Well, maybe there was.

Ever since my MI & stent implant in May of this year, I have craved salads. Not just your typical iceberg type salads, I mean fresh spinach, kale, fava beans, broccoli, anything dark green. I never gave it a thought until my grandson (a state certified pharmacy technician) talked with the pharmacist about my cravings.

The pharmacist mentioned that all the greens that I was craving had vitamine K in them. Vitamine K works against some blood thinning medications as it helps clot blood! After hearing this, I called my cardiologist and asked his nurse if that could be what caused my stent to close. She said that, eaten in excess, it could cause a problem because it's a blood coagulant. Effient is a new drug and little is still known about affects of certain foods on it. Although this may not have been the cause of the stent closing, it may not have helped it.

I was eating 3 - 4 salads a day..... and I mean BIG salads. I was actually taking in 80% - 90% more vitamine k than what the normal person would. I'm allowed to have the greens I like, but in moderation. This link takes you to some of the foods that contain vitamine k. http://www.foodandlife.com/foodh.html
I've eaten nearly every one of them, in huge amounts, over the past four months.

We'll be doing more blood work now, to see if I'm lacking iron or something else. It's possible the Effient is stripping my system of something and that could be the reason I'm craving these veggies. It's well worth the investigation.

In the meantime, I'm allowed my salds, but small ones and to limit the dark green veggies I put in them. A small price to pay IF that's the culprit. My doctor won't give a definate answer until he checks into it further and see's how these stents do. It may be the vitamine k or it might be something else. Whatever it is, it's causing my blood to clot, even with blood thinners. I know it's not good for people on Coumadins, but for those taking Effient or Plavix??? Guess we'll have to wait and see.

In the meantime, I'm going to give my body all the help I can and limit my intake of those delicious dark green veggies. Although I'm not a big fan of it, iceburg lettuce is supposed to be okay to eat.

Hugs
Helen
Posted on 09/22/11, 09:45 am
11 Replies | Most Recent Add Your Reply
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Reply #1 - 09/22/11  10:31am
" Thanks Helen,

That's really interesting. I was warned off of eating a lot of spinach and broccoli in particular right after I received my stent. Well, it wasn't too much of a problem for me, I don't eat them except occasionally raw in salads or sandwiches, but I really couldn't figure out why I should avoid them in excess. Now I get it! Glad that you may have found a key to what's been troubling you, too!

All the best,
Steve "
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Reply #2 - 09/22/11  1:25pm
" Steve, I'm hoping that's been the culprit. My cardiologist will not give a definate "yes that's the problem", but it's something that "could" be. We're going to watch it closely now. We don't want these closing, for obvious reasons. I wasn't told about the spinach and broccoli so I didn't have a clue. I'll be more careful now, that's for sure.

Hugs
Helen "
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Reply #3 - 09/22/11  9:43pm
" Yeah, the thing is, my doctors didn't mention it either. I got the warning from another heart patient! I wasn't sure I believed it or not, but my tendency isn't to go overboard on the dark greens anyhow. I did think there might be something to it inasmuch as this heart patient's father is a cardiologist. I sometimes wish that the doctors or hospital counselors were a little more vocal about things like this right up front. "
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Reply #4 - 09/23/11  7:50am
" Of all the literature they sent home with me, there was nothing about what foods to be aware of or not to eat. I believe I'll fill out on of those cards and put it in the suggestion box, both at the hospital and at my cardiologists office. Could be they're so concerned about what not to do, to keep the proceedure spot and stents from being messed up that they don't give a second thought about the food??. "
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Reply #5 - 09/23/11  10:01am
" Helen,

It is well known that green leaves veggies has Vitamin K. This is an issue if you are in an anti-coagulant treatment using a Anti Vitamin K drug (like Warfarin). However I doubt that has any relation with you taking Effient which is an anti-agregant, a very different process.

If you were having problems with clots while on heparin in the hospital, were you ever been tested for Anti Phospho Lipid Syndrome - APLS?? This is also called "sticky blood".

Remember, if your doctors has placed you in an anti-agregant treatment, it is because they do not consider that you should be in an anti-coagulant one, therefore Vit. K should not be an issue.

I am a firm believer that our body it is very wise, and if your body ask for it, you should eat them.

BTW, recent research have shown a new metabolic process in the human body able to convert Nitrites into Nitric Oxide (NO) which is a great great cleaner for arteries. Green veggies have a lot of Nitrites.

Jesus "
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Reply #6 - 09/23/11  10:44am
" Jesus, I must be one of the "dumb" ones then because I did NOT know about vitamin K, much less it being in green leafy veggies. I never researched a lot of things because, until May of this year, I really didn't think about it. I never had issues before my MI.

Like I said earlier, Effient is fairly new and there's still much to learn about it. I've read everything I can find on it and my doctor is watching my blood closely. I don't know whether or not I've been checked for Anti Phospho Lipid Syndrome, but I will certainly ask when I see him on the 4th.

The main issue is... vitamin K does help clot blood and mine clots too much. I have to LIMIT my intake of it until we see if that is truly the issue. I also mentioned that we were NOT sure if Effient has anything to do with it or not, but my doctor is checking to see if it could. I'm just speculating here.

I was told, on another board, that I was dumb and needed to do my research. I truly hesitated in posting here. I even tried to delete my post but couldn't figure out how to do it. I HAVE done research and I continue to search on the matter. I meerly was hoping someone else may have heard this and if anyone knew anything about Effient that I don't, or what "might" possibly be causing the problem. Although I trust my doctors, I still research everything on my own.

"Anti-agregant treatment", "Anti-coagulant "..... all very new to me. All I AM sure of is.... my first stent closed and I just had two more implanted last week. I'm confused as to what happened and why it happened, but I'll continue to research and talk with my doctors as to what may have happened and why my blood continues to clot as it does. It clots before it even hits the vials, in the doctors office.

I'm now going to do my research on "Anti-agregant treatment", "Anti-coagulant" "
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Reply #7 - 09/23/11  2:03pm
" What does your hematology look like now. I am more looking at the RBW and the NRBC values. These are associated with common restenosis and future Cardiac Issues. I was just wondering Ruthie coz my subsequest heart attacks are pointing at anemia or other causes of my multilpe HA's. Mine have been constantly out of the normal range and my platelete counts have also been suspect. I am scheduled to see a hematologist if these ranges remain consistant. I would also add as Jesus shows in his every reply and seems you are doing the same, research your issues and challenge the doctor's knowledge. It was I that brought this to my doctor's attention not him after reviewing my CBC histories. I mearly searched restenosis which is what it sounds like happened to you and "Viola" all this informatuion consistant with my counts began to appear. I am also cautioning to not to look too far into things and begin to imagine that the "boogie man' is in your body. You are mearly educating yourself to make a better Ruthie. I am facinated by all of this and really look forward to my computer time as is related to cardiac issues that the general public would not be excpected to know. That way you can challenge your doctor's findings and either get the real help you need or a large prescription for 'Klonopin' LOL.

Love ya Guys,

Just Joe ♥ "
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Reply #8 - 09/23/11  5:46pm
" Helen,

No research made on Vitamin K, but painful experience, my wife suffered quit a number of miscarriages, and we very soon learn that at the first symptom of bedding in the early states of pregnancy, she needed Vitamin K and green leaves....

Jesus "
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Reply #9 - 09/23/11  7:31pm
" Hi Helen,
this is very interesting stuff and have never been told about this and I actually find it hard to believe. Lots of fruits and vegetables contain Vitamin K.That's all I eat, I would have to eat only protein if I added all the numbers up.

If you don't mind me asking what type of stent did you have put in place? I had heard that the stainless steel kind had problems closing up. Just a thought.

Way to be proactive though.

Mind, Body, and Soul
Louie "
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Reply #10 - 10/04/11  6:08pm
" All I eat is salads. I do have some fruit too, but I eat mainly salads. The salad has Vitamin K in it. But I am missing the other essential vitamins needed to stay healthy. So what I am eating on a daily basis, I think I am eating right, but I am really not. The problem is I don't really like alot of foods and I don't eat alot either, so that will still be the issue as I get older too.

Cassie "

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