Health Care Reform Support Group

For the moment we are still living in a medical-model world. Even gambling and shoplifting are seen as medical conditions, for crying out loud, and a pill is supposed to be the answer. There are some good books on this subject. I just came across one that I have yet to read but which sounds perfect: "Your Drug May Be Your Problem," By Peter Breggin and David Cohen. I have already read Breggin's excellent "Toxic Psychiatry" and would recommend t to anyone. I focus on the mental-health angle because I work in that field. One problem I see every week at work is someone rolling in the door addicted to tranquilizers or painkillers or both, thinking they need the stuff to live because their pain/anxiety is so bad, never having been told by the prescribing doc that those pills, intended to treat the problem, actually make it worse.

I just must make a comment. Can't resist.

My problem with the attitudes expressed in the last couple of posts and with books such as those mentioned above is they ignore the fact that there are very real illnesses that have yet to be "cured" --- like MS, ALS, Grave's Disease, Addison's Disease, Diabetes, Chrohn's Disease, Hypoparathyroid Disorder, Schizophrenia, etc, etc. PLEASE if there is a proven better alternative to the medical model for these illnesses (which at least allows us to survive and treats some of the symptoms) let me know what it is so I and some of my wonderful friends can be cured!


Many people come to daily strength because they suffer from a chronic illness and are connecting with others with similar obstacles -(the links to medication assist people to find more information about that particular medication including others reactions and observations about it.)
Most of us with a chronic illness are not "CURED" by any of the pills we take (and unfortunately we know it!) -- but we don't have enough "will power, courage, redirection coping, and inner strength" or just can't "buck up" enough to not end up in the hospital without those medications! Maybe the medications I am taking will kill me sooner than if I did not take them, but that is better than being dead within the year which would most likely happen should I not take them at all. Didn't have enough money for my medication once and I was in the hospital within a month.

I really kind of resent some one saying just "Get over it!" Are you implying that my illnesses are just all in my head!
Yeah I have a couple of them -- thats why I'm struck twice. Crohn's and MS.

As for pain medications -- Pain medication allieviates some of the suffering for those of us with such chronic conditions. I do not take them everyday or even on a regular basis but when I do need them it may mean that I will be able to cook dinner or make it to my daughters soccer game rather than lying in bed wishing my life was just over as the pain is so unbearable. An no I am not depressed -- I only feel like that when the pain is really bad! Pain medication for some of us not only improves the quality of life -- (not just my own but my daughters) it also is necessary to function at times!

I don't know exactly what to say about gambling and shoplifting being seen as medical conditions and perhaps we are in an age of over prescribing for "psychiatric" woes. I am really annoyed that every time I go to the doctor I must answer a bunch of standard questions related to assessing whether I'm depressed or not when I would rather spend my allotted fifteen minutes addressing my physical problems. But even in the mental health field anti-anxiety drugs, anti-depressants, and tranquilizers (although we always wished there was something better) have a purpose. I worked in mental health also -- I worked with the very seriously mentally ill -- those that were often hospitalized as a danger to themselves or others. I can't tell you how many times a dose of tranquilizer or some anti-anxiety medication allowed a person so out of control that restraints were necessary to calm down.

I think the more public focus on people who abuse or misuse of pain killers and other types of medication and the outcry against them has had a negative impact on those with chronic conditions that really need assistance to allieviate their very real condition. Numerous laws and medical policies have in recent years been passed in an effort to thwart such misuse/abuse but I think these measures do more to harm to those with real disease than prevent misuse. For example -- in order to get prescriptions for many pain medications now one must physically pick up the prescription every month from the doctors office -- doctors are not allowed to call in, fax or specify refills for such prescriptions to a pharmacy (except for an emergency usually limited to couple of days supply) -- even when a person has been on the same medication for some time and there have not been any signs of misuse or abuse.. This is quite a hardship for a person who may already have some difficulty getting around due to their illness. It is also a hardship for those who live in rural areas who have to travel some distance to see a doctor. Physicians have also become very reluctant to prescribe such medications -- I used to be able to get a few pain killers for those really bad days from either my primary care doc or one of my specialists but the review and suspicion of doctors who prescribe them has made them all decide not to write them at all --now I must go to a "pain clinic" or the ER. Add that to all my other doc visits --- I already see three various specialists in addition to my primary, and go in for lab work every couple of months. I'm now supposed to go to a pain clinic too. Good Grief -- who has time, who has the energy... and no wonder medical costs in our nation are soaring.

If you could walk in my shoes for a few days or read some of the posts of my other ill and suffering friends on daily strength you would see medication is not perfect but sometimes necessary!

I have never and will never accept that Mental illness is in the same category as Cancer, MS, CP, ALS, Diabetes or any other physical illness. Please continue to take your meds for that. I did not ignore that fact. I simply needed to explain myself in better detail. Actually I think i left it out completely, oopsy me. Maybe I should have written this note in Anger and Venting! I am screaming mad at how many Medicines they have for "Mental Illness" and the Doctors that get "perks" for prescribing them. They do in fact KILL your organs and in lots of cases, make the Mental illness worse. Like i said, my husband has worked in the Pharmaceutical world for 18 + years. It's his job to know more about a medication than the Doctor or the patient.

I'm sorry you are feeling frustrated to the point of needing to vent. I do agree with you that Doctors should not be given "perks" for prescribing a particular medication -- that is just wrong! And yes many medications are harmful.
There are many mental illnesses that appear to have a physical basis! Research on Schizophrenia and Bi-polar Disorder does indicate that these are indeed physical. And if you have watched a man with such an illness tear into a wall with his bare hands and rip out electrical wires in a matter of seconds with no clue as to the possible danger/harm to himself and others (one of many stories I could share), you would realize that medication (although imperfect) may be the lesser danger.
Even in cases of "mental" illness that are less dangerous, medication may be considered the lesser of two evils. My brother too is a pharmicist! He just made one of the hardest decisions he will ever have to make regarding medication. His young son has ADHD. For several years he and his wife have attempted to manage his son without putting him on any of the medications for this so called "mental" disorder -- my brother is all to aware of the dangers of these types of medications. Finally last year, my brother could no longer stand to see his bright son who can memorize an entire song and melody after hearing it but once failing to learn to read so he decided to give the meds a try. His son is now catching up quickly! My brother, despite his sons improvement, still agonizes over his decision wondering if he has done the right thing!
At this time most mental illness is not very well understood and inadequately treated, although those affected by it say it involves real suffering. Did you know that diabetes was originally considered a "mental illness"? I think we should be hesitant to say mental illness is not in the same category as a physical illness.
I also view the serge of new medications as hopeful rather than what is wrong with this world -- to me it means that someone is trying to find answers, solutions.

I have several chronic illnesses myself and I am unfortunately dependent on some very nasty medicines to keep me alive. One of them, I have to tell you, I would not have at all if not for the health system's insistence on stuffing vile dairy products into children from the day they are born.

But I have to tell you -- speaking as someone with 15 years of professional experience in mental health and 46 years of personal experience with it -- Schizophrenia is NOT a physical disease. It was being cured decades before the discovery of neuroleptic drugs through psychotherapy. The only obstacle to getting that sort of help for sufferers today is the fact that mental health does not get adequate coverage for ALL the help they need.

Meds give quick relief from the symptoms but they change nothing as far as helping the person cope with reality, and 10% of them get permanent brain damage from the meds.

BTW there is NO research-based evidence that Schizophrenia is a genetic or even physical disease. Everyone in the field says it but nobody can ever prove it.

The whole argument is based on the idea that if a chemical relieves the symptoms, the problem must be a "chemical imbalance." It ignores the fact that you never, never, never develop psychotic symptoms without major stress and major trauma.

Hey Cliff -- I just don't exactly no what to say about your statement that schizophrenia ..."was being cured decades before the discovery of neuroleptic drugs through psychotherapy". Having a doctorate degree in the field and 15+ years experience also-- I have never heard this substantiated... Sure would like to review the literature/claims supporting such a claim -- it would be revolutionary for me!
The thinking that schizophrenia and bi-polar disorders have a physical basis is not solely based on "the idea that if a chemical relieves the symptoms, the problem must be a "chemical imbalance". In addition to that particular argument it is known that:
Schizophrenia runs in families. People who have a close relative with schizophrenia are more likely to develop the disorder than are people who have no relatives with the illness. For example, an identical twin of a person with schizophrenia, has the highest risk – 40 to 50 percent – of developing the illness. A child whose parent has schizophrenia has about a 10 percent chance. By comparison, the risk of schizophrenia in the general population is about 1 percent. This is the evidence that supports a hypothesis of a genetic predisposition.
Significant Loss of Brain Gray Matter: Individuals with schizophrenia, including those who have never been treated, have a reduced volume of gray matter in the brain, especially in the temporal and frontal lobes. Recently neuroscientists have detected gray matter loss of up to 25% (in some areas). The damage starts in the parietal, or outer, regions of the brain but spread to the rest of the brain over a five year period. Patients with the worst brain tissue loss also had the worst symptoms, which included hallucinations, delusions, bizarre and psychotic thoughts, hearing voices, and depression.
Enlaged Ventricles in the Brain: Individuals with schizophrenia, including those who have never been treated, typically have enlarged ventricles in the brain.
Enlarged Amygdala: Individuals with manic-depressive disorder have an enlarged amygdala and increased numbers of white matter hyperintensities
Neurological Abnormalities: Individuals with schizophrenia and manic-depressive disorder, including those who have never been treated, have more neurological abnormalities.
"Major Stress" indeed does appear to be a precipitating factor for many who develop these disorders but there are still many who do not have "major stress" before becoming ill. And "stress" seems to be a exacerbating or precipitating factor in many illnesses -- physical as well as psychological.
I am very aware of the horrible side effects caused by neuroleptics. In addition to seeing these effects in former clients, I watched as my mother who had schizophrenia slowly developed irreversible Tardive Dyskinesia. As all medications are dangerous-- I am all for people managing their illness through lifestyle changes, psychotherapy, willpower etc... IF THEY CAN! I just think we need to be careful about judging others (and their families) choices to be on medication or not!

And I agree mental health is a VERY VERY underfunded. Lack of money for research,,, lack of money for treatment!!!

Try the Adverse Childhood Events study: http://xnet.kp.org/permanentejourn... It's showed conclusively that the only predictor of the existence and severity of mental-health and substance-abuse issues is adverse childhood events. The more of these events you had, the more issues you are going to have later on. Period. That includes psychotic disorders.

And read "Daggers Of The Mind" by Gordon Warme, "Toxic Psychiatry" by Peter Breggin, and "Mad In America" by Robert Whitaker. That should get you started.

People need to read these research studies "proving" that mental illness are biological much, much more critically. I remember one in the _Family Therapy Networker_ that "proved" that schizophrenics have fewer dopamine receptors than other people. It made no attempt to explain how they counted the receptors -- the wrong method might fail to show that schizophrenics have as many as or more than others, but that some might be gummed shut. Their respondent sample was tiny, too small to be generalizable. The study also made no attempt to explain why, if you have fewer dopamine receptors than other people, you can make it into young adulthood or even retirement age before breaking with symptoms. They fail to explain why schizophrenia always hit at a time when the sufferer is going through a major role shift -- from child to adult, from employed to retired, from line worker to executive -- and never at any other time. On the facing page there was another article from another study showing that regardless of diagnosis, treatment sucess or failure hinges 100% on how well a person with a mental illness engages with a therapist.

Those twin studies you cite show that schizophrenia is NOT genetic. Identical twins -- at least since the adoption laws changed -- are raised in identical environments with families teaching them the identical coping skills. How are you going to pick that apart from the genetics? Nobody has ever seriously tried. Those studies show that even if there is a schizophrenia gene, you can prevent it from activating somehow -- with no special intervention you have only a 50/50 chance, assuming that gene exists at all.

If anything, twin studies show schizophrenia is NOT genetic. If identical twins have the identical schizophrenia gene, they should both get it every single time, no ifs, ans or buts. BTW, nobody has identified a gene that, turned on or off, gives you (or cures you of) schizophrenia.

Can it ever be denied that since 911 there has been an explosion of psycho therapy drugs? I do believe so. I hear all the time that it's "okay" to come out with your mental disorder as opposed to coming out with it before 2001. That it's "okay" not to hide it anymore. Pardon me but how does one "hide" a Mental Illness? Give me a break. Pills have been pushed and pushed since that day. Commercial after commercial. We as a nation have learned how to cope with emotional set backs with pills! Once again I'm not talking about cancer or diabetes. I am talking about Mental illness. However, once you have taken these pills for such a long time, it becomes a physical illness. An addiction if you will. Then you need a stronger more powerful dose to take away that pain. They cause physical illness. Organ failure, hair loss, skin problems. Heck, my birth control pills are messing with my heart. i called the Doctor just today to change them. This is my second attempt. They wanted me to get an EKG before they did. What the heck? I know what happens when I'm on them and when I'm off them. It's my body. I was told today it's because my Dr. REALLY likes the brand I'm on!! Holy Cow Batman! Are you kidding? My point was just proven by what my Doctor said. She gets perks for the amount of people she has on that BC pill.