What happens after you suffer a DVT and are placed on anticoagulatnts is your body, to some extend, breaks down the clot natural. What you are left with is an obstruction in that affected area which is a fibrinous scar which is left behind. Depending on the severity of the damage you acquire what is known as Chronic Venous Insufficiency (aka Post Thrombotic Syndrome (PTS), or Venous Stress Disorder). Here is some patient information regards this:

http://stoptheclot.org/Newsletters/Natt_Newsletter_Spring_2006.pdf

You should have been prescribed fitted compression stocks, which the newsletter above discusses. Wearing of compression stockings can in some cases reverse the damage. Even if it doensn't it definitely help wearing them.

If you feel you are not getting the answers, I would not hestitate to find a specialist in your area. If you need help finding one, message me through this website. The fact that you mention the pain is still so bad worries me. Only because you mention that you see the doctor every six months. When was your DVT? If it was fairly recent then to some point there still may be a lot of pain. If the DVT was from several months ago, then I would definitely see a doctor other then the one you have been seeing. The pain uses lessens over time, it should not be so bad that you still have major problems.

Regards,
Tom in Connecticut

Bakercin-

My understanding is that anticoagulants like wafarin thin the blood but do nothing to dissolve a chronic blood clot. There are other side effects as well.

I can only relay my own experience.

I developed a chronic blood clot was put on wafarin for about 2 years then discontinue this therapy. I began supplementation of enzymes, nattokinase, vit e, fish oil. The pressure has slowly diminished over the years and I have not felt swelling for several years now.

http://beating-myeloma.org/about/david-emerson-story

http://beating-myeloma.org/subject/blood-clot-coumadin-wafarin

http://beating-myeloma.org/subject/fish-oil

David Emerson

David,

You are right in that anticoagulant medication does not break down the clot.

Same can be said with Vitamin "E" and fish Oil (omega-3) which have been shown to have some benefits in clot prevention in women.

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3050281

However, another report around the same timeframe indicated some patients may have a risk from developing arterial clots due to long-term use. The juries still out on the effectiveness and more research needs to take place. This same trial ran around the same time as folic acid was hoped to reduce the odds of developing venous clots (DVT/PE).

As far as fibrinolytic agents, they are only good for reducing clots out to the four week post DVT timeframe. Thus, for those patients who feel Nattokinase has any fibrinolytic abilities (which I am not one), the only time it would help was up to 4 weeks post DVT. I should also note, it is not an anticoagulant.

Your body actually breaks down what is can of the clot as I had already mentioned. For general info, Urokinase, which is a fibronlytic agent used during thrombolysis, was originally isolated from human urine.

Regards,
Tom in Connecticut

I found vitamin E and omega 3 oils along with VERY regular (more than once a day) easy-paced aerobic exercise DOES actually break down the clot, by a sort of erosion, like rivers make canyons. I was told by my doctor to exercise at a low intensity all I want, and the dangerous thing is to be sedentary (perpetuates or grows the clot). So I created a lifestyle of aerobic exercise and gardening (started a gardening business) so I was moving in a low intensity way ALL THE TIME and was on my feet most of the time. No more than 1 hour at a time not moving on my feet! Unless exercising aerobically ex. swimming that is not on feet, that is OK too. Well the DVT dissolved in 19 days when the expectation was 3 months. Doctors who say don't exercise are CRAZY- exercise is what heals this. The trick is a LOT of VERY EASY PACE exercise and LIMIT SITTING to 1 hour or less. Anytime you sit for more than 30 min you then have to walk for at least 20 min to get the blood moving again. IF the blood is moving it is eroding the clot. If the blood is not moving the clot is staying the same or getting bigger. MOVE!!!!! Be on your feet! Do easy (talking pace) exercise aerobic several times a day for 30 min to 1 hour. Walking is ideal, very easy biking swimming rowing etc all very good. Sleep with feet above heart. Watch the DVT disappear.

Now I am continuing the same lifestyle to keep the vein open while it heals.

I say, get a second opinion.

OK, my question to that is: if you are eroding the clot, where are the "eroded pieces of clot going" is that not what an embolus aka emboli is?
So what you are recreating is what may become a pulmonary embolism?
Am I not right?

No emboli at all. What happens is the type of erosion that you see when a river goes through rock and digs a canyon. It erodes away microscopic little bits, constantly all the time, bits that are easily broken down and processed by the body. Teeny tiny microscopic bits, not emboli. My lungs are in ridiculously good health- I swim as hard as I can with my arms and legs and I am not even breathing my hardest. I am taking huge, deep breaths that last me several strokes. My doctor checked my lungs very carefully and they are in perfect health.

I started out at VERY slow paces and just did a lot of it- an hour in the morning, and hour around noon, an hour in the evening, plus moving all day. I did it by doing a large QUANTITY of easy exercise such as walking, that the doctor said was safe. After awhile I could do a little more, etc. This is a very safe, well researched method that any doctor that does their footwork could find out about. It works whether or not you are on blood thinners. Exercise actually erodes away the clot; blood thinners do not. It is not either or- you could do both if you want.

Please make sure if you try this exercise option, you do it by doing exercise your doctor says is safe. If you have a doctor who thinks NO exercise is safe, they are wrong- find a doctor who is willing to learn and research about it. You need to find a doctor who will supervise you with this, not just hack at it. Exercising at too high an intensity or too high a muscular load in the area of the DVT, could cause an embolism, so you do have to pick safe forms of exercise for you and just do a lot of it.

Please also note that this was written under "chronic DVT." For DVT that are less than 10 days old, it is a diffferent story. When I was at that stage, I kept workouts in the 20-45 minute range and very very easy. After 10 days, the thing is firmly attached to the blood vessel wall and then it seems that quantity of exercise has no mechanism to dislodge it. Then you can walk or do yoga or whatever, as much as you want, and the more the better. That is what I learned, but consult a doctor, do not just hack at it.

Thanks to all for bringing these matters into the discussion. I was not prepared to learn, nearly a year post-thrombo and post-PE, that there was still obstruction in the affected leg veins. :(
Over time it gets slightly easier being indefinitely propped up on anticoagulant meds that I hoped to drop. If nothing else, it is bearable one day at a time, with some possibility of marginal improvement in the long haul.

OK, theroadnottaken, now I see what you are talking of... That is something I could had presented to my Dr. as an option, two years ago...

I forgot to say...
Thank you, very much for explaining this.

:)

I agree that exercise is an important part of our recovery. After two or three weeks of treatment my doctor said that I could do whatever exercise I could do. I started out with yoga type stretching and breathing and am now also doing some aerobic walking. I wear my pedometer every day. On the days when I don't walk much my leg feels much worse and swells more. Today was one of those days when I had so much work to do that I wiggled my legs under the table instead of getting up to walk every hour. I can tell it was a mistake. I will try to do better tomorrow. I walked a mile with my Leslie Sansone DVD tonight, but I still haven't made up for my inactivity during the day. I loved the visual analogy. I will try to picture my DVT dissolving as I walk.

Also, since no one mentioned it that I noticed....always wear your compression hose when you are out of bed or shower...and especially when you exercise.

I'm confused by the posts about the use of fish oil in treating DVT. I thought fish oil was contraindicated in people who are on coumadin, so I've stopped taking it, even though it would be beneficial in treating another health issue I'm dealing with.
What's the scoop?

Hattie,

Fish Oil (Omega-3) and Vitamin E can raise your INR levels a little. Both have very mild anticoagulant effects (sort of like aspirin). It should be noted though, Vitamin E and Fish Oil do "not" break down clots in any way.

The guidelines studies of Vitamin E showed it could be beneficial for patients not on long-term Coumadin therapy. Problem is conflicting studies around the same time frame that offer a different view. A longer, much more researched study needs to take place to see what the real story is. As I mentioned, my thrombophilia doctor was one of the primary researcher in the trial which Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston (Harvard) collected the data for.

One thing I personally found after both DVT's was if I exercised daily, my body re-wired it's circulatory system. I blew a few valves during this but my circulation appeared to approved. Now that I'm older and less active (due to my hip) I find that things have gone the opposite route and swelling can be more prominent during prolonged standing. Guess I have no excuse with the new hip not to get back on my bike and hammer the trails.

Regards,
Tom in Connecticut


Regards,
Tom in Connecticut