Codependency Support Group

Enmeshment is sometimes defined as twisted together or entwined into a confusing mass; and in codependency circles, you can hear lots of examples, such as having no boundaries with another person; not knowing what your business is, and what is not your business; feeling whatever someone thinks one should feel; no clear sense of an individuated self.

Loving detachment is a recovery term that means you continue to care about someone, but you establish emotional and spiritual distance between you and that person. It is the opposite of enmeshment, but has no component of indifference or lack of concern or love.

My best experience in understanding enmeshment, avoidance and loving detachment has been in a combination of two 12-step programs, Al-Anon and CoDA. Therapists are often skilled in assisting in recovery from enmeshment or avoidance as well.

Sometimes loving detachment is often referred to in the therapeutic community as "tough love" -- not doing for someone else what they need to do for themselves.

Thank you, that's helpful. I've gone to 2 CoDA meetings now, but they haven't really talked about that yet. I'm having some issues because I'm living with my mom right now. At first I was really strong with my boundaries, but then I started to feel like I was being mean, and loosen up...and she immediately started with all her strategies of trying to control me, which I was blind-sided by. Now I'm feeling panicky and like I have to get out of here asap.

She keeps saying she's happy to have me here and we can work something out while I'm working on myself, with contributing to the household with cleaning and cooking, etc., which I would be happy to do...except that it seems there are lots of strings attached to anything she gives me, regardless of what I do to give back...which I find out later. It's very confusing and hard to pin down, and she totally denies it. But I feel like the more time I spend here, the more she tries to control me in little ways, and she even discourages me when I get an idea of how to support myself or find another place to live. She's saying she wants to provide me with a place to heal for a while before I go back out into the work world, but then this seems like a place where I can't heal because I'm being bombarded with her ideas and needs, while I'm trying to figure out my own ideas and needs.

As I type this it seems like I'd be silly to think it was a good idea to stay here, but I guess I'm just feeling like a refugee from my divorce and feeling really afraid of going out into the world and trying to succeed, when my emotions have been so unpredictable and I'm often depressed and anxious. And it would be so nice to have a little retreat, but only if I could feel safe. Am I crazy to even want this? What do you think?

No, you are not crazy. Its wonderful to know you want safety and healing, and you can do them whereever you are. If you haven't heard it yet in your coDA meetings, pick up the Newcomer's Handbook, and one thing you will see in there, is that you can practice your program and heal no matter where you are. You don't have to leave a relationship to find "safety", because you don't get safety from someone else behaving well; you get it from developing strong internal boundaries that keep you well, safe and healthy no matter how unhealthy the people are around you.

Your mom will be a great place to start learning about unwinding enmeshment and developing loving detachment and boundaries. If you start journaling about the feelings that come up around your mother, and share those in your meeting, find a sponsor and start working the steps, you will start to see how you can start taking care of yourself, setting boundaries with your mom, learning to say "no, thank you" and asking your mom to respect your space, both emotional and spiritual. You can do this, you can!

I have enmeshment issues with my son. He does not do for himself what he should till I cant cope any more and I cave in and do it.

My desire is for us to live apart so that I can stop reacting to his chosen life style. I don't think I can achieve this while he lives at home as a complete couch potato.

Vibrant1 I am not saying that this is your situation, my son and I have an odd life in the same house. I would love to know what the lesson is that I need to learn from it.

This definition is so helpful.. . I am having a hard time because many years ago I was working on recovery from food issues and I "had it made!" I was healing and getting healthy and then I met the king of all manipulators...my soon to be ex...and I went on a 16 year COdependent binge! I am so floored that I got so completely clobbered by my CoDa issues. This line about feeling what another think you should feel. OMG that was my freakin life. What keeps going on in my head is "I was smarter than this." "I was in recovery when I got into this mess !" But it happened and I am in a struggle to get out. My ex is pulling no punches with his manipulative histrionics and making my kids and me suffer. However, I am determined that I need and want OUT. He spent 2 nights in jail and wants to peg everything on me--he owns nothing. Yet all I have done is set up healthy boundaries and stick to them.
There are no CoDA meetings near me but I will look for an AlAnon meeting to go to soon.

Enmeshment is sometimes defined as twisted together or entwined into a confusing mass; and in codependency circles, you can hear lots of examples, such as having no boundaries with another person; not knowing what your business is, and what is not your business; feeling whatever someone thinks one should feel; no clear sense of an individuated self.

Thank you, Grace, I appreciate that. I have to get that handbook. It has been a little better the last few days, as I both speak up for myself more, and take my independence back. It's hard, though, it's so easy for me to get pulled back in without realizing it, because I grew up enmeshed with her, and only started to find myself by moving out at a young age and not answering her phone calls. We've never fixed our relationship, or, I should say, I've never healed the way I related with her, at least not completely. I guess it is a good opportunity to do some work, since we're stuck together for the time being.

It's hard when I set a boundary, and then she reacts with pouting and acting like I've hurt her or I'm being ungrateful. I start to feel like she expects that in return for staying in her house, I have to allow her to invade my space mentally, emotionally, and physically in some ways. I know I'm right not to accept that, but I get confused when she gets upset because...well...she's my mom! She used to tell me how everything was, and I believed every word.

Thank you for the encouragement! I think talking about this in CoDa would be awesome. I've only shared a little bit so far, and nothing about her. I'm starting to get an idea of who I might want my sponsor to be.

Corall- My mom is like this with my brother, especially. The thing is, in their situation, she's done everything for him his whole life, so he literally doesn't know how to take care of himself. He goes back and forth between resenting her and being nasty to her, and then crawling to her like a little boy and asking her to take care of him. I think the best thing for him would be to become independent from her, but he's afraid and doesn't know how. and it's become quite an ingrained habit by now (he's 27). In your situation, I bet it would be a real gift to stop helping him, even though he would be lost for a while until he figures things out.

Heathernew- I admire your strength, and wish you well in your recovery!

This is a great topic for me, because I am living with my husband, but in seperate bedrooms for 15 years now.

We have 2 kids, and I said to myself, "biteme, you chose the little bastard, so you have to live up to your decision and commitment......the kids aren't responsible for your bad choice, so don't make them "pay"...

That's my mindset...right or wrong, the kids deserve a mom and dad...regardless of "our" dysfunction...

I've always talked about this to my kids, now 15 and 18...that their dad and I, have grown apart, but will always love each other on some level, and most definately always love them no matter what....

...but THIS marriage is not "normal"...this is the opposite of what you should look for....

There is so much more I could explain about our/my arrangement, but not relevant...

While I am with my husband, I am constantly in "baptism by fire"...

I am in it. I am confronted with detachment and enmeshment issues, every day.

Decisions about the kids, finances, hell...what's for dinner ?...

...everything is an opportunity to change the way I act/react to this guy....

I protected his feelings for all of our marriage....I ran interference between his narcissism and my children's well being...now, I am protecting mine...and calling him on his BS...it is sooooo hard, because I am a very tender heart...I don't want to confront him, even if he needs and invites confrontation...

I work every day, in the trenches, to detach and take care of myself...no matter how it may affect him...after all, it's not my job to take care of his feelings...it's his...a tough lesson and difficult one...but I must stand strong for myself and stop enabling him, for him and my kids...

Instead of defining "detachment" or "emeshment"...if we absolutely focus on what is best for us (something that elludes us cody's)...in any given situation...whether it be, as a friend once defined, "taking the best piece of chicken instead of what is leftover"....

...if we are true to ourselves and even "fake" and "act as if" we matter, before we believe it...we won't have to define what enmeshment or detachment is, imo.

Simply stated, when we care for ourselves and our own wounds, without expecting to be "rescued"....everyone wins....

Bitemepa, you have been in recovery circles for a very long time, and so perhaps defining enmeshment and detachment (and living it) has lost its meaning for you, as it does for me, if I stay in an unhealhty and toxic relationship too long.

But as newcomers to recovery from codepdendency, sometimes if we don't define enmeshment and what its healthy counter-part looks like, we don't know where to start to get healthy because enmeshment feels like love and detachment feels like indifference.

We are all in different places, and knowing what's best at any given time for any of us, is distinctly personal.

Hugs, glad to have you back.

Grace

I liked hearing the definitions, and I also liked hearing the general advice of taking care of myself, They complement each other and make sense to me (swear I'm not just saying that to please you guys, lol).

BMP- that sounds super intense. Wow. I'm so glad you're honest with your kids about the situation...my parents weren't, and I was totally shocked and floored at age 14 to discover they were getting divorced. I had thought we were a "normal family" and their relationship was healthy. Certainly didn't set me up for good patterns. It reminds me of a little part of a song, "...And if you can't be good, at least be honest to your babies" always struck a nerve.

Vibrant one - Same thing happened to me. Never heard a cross word between my folks. The one night at supper they told us they were getting a divorce. I was also 14. It totally wiped me out. In my case - us four kids stayed with my dad during the school year. I was the oldest and I tryed to replace my mother in my dad's eyes. I was a "super mom"...cooked, cleaned, ironed, tryed to be perfect..It worked until he started to date and brought a woman home to meet us. I went bananas..couldn't handle his "rejection". Ran away to live with my mom (I was 16 and could choose ).